Or is the world obsessed with Santa?

[80schild]

Starting this thread after a few bizarre conversations recently.

It started with a friend about a month ago who was aged 8 at the time of the incident - Her DD was concerned about santa coming into her room at night, so friend decided this was the time to break the news that santa wasn't real but she wished she had told her earlier.

DH is a school teacher. Apparently he was told not to "break the news" to his year 7s as some of them still believed in Santa.

My DS is now in year 2. All his friends still believe in Santa.

My sister has thoroughly brainwashed her children into believing if they aren't good santa won't come to them (this is just wrong).

I find it really odd that parents don't seem to tell their children sooner. I think my DS is the only one who doesn't believe (I told him in a small argument about what Christmas was about). I am sure as a kid I knew by the age of 7 and that less of a fuss was made about the whole santa thing and it was less encouraged to hold on to the belief in Santa.

I guess I am wondering if I am being unreasonable for thinking attitudes towards santa are slightly overdone?

I think some would argue that telling your child that Jesus was the son of God and telling a child that Santa is real... They are both questions where the child could make up their mind.

In your little bubble Christ is real, you tell your children that's your opinion. People get sick of Christian culture in the same way you get sick of Santa.

What is the harm in creating traditions to help you through the rhythm of life?

YABU, mostly because you refer to 'Santa', it's only 'Father Christmas' in this house.

I definitely believed in him until about 8 but we just had a stocking from him and presents from Mum and Dad. This is the tradition that I've continued. We live in a flat with a balcony, an hour ago I stood with my 4 year old DD looking out for him, she's convinced she saw him, it made her night- what's wrong with that? My 8 year old still believes in him I think. I used to go to Midnight mass etc. as a child but my DH is Jewish so I think the Father Christmas ritual is ok as it it's not exactly offensive.

I'm the kind of parent that believes their imagination and the development of it makes 'childhood' special. We do all sorts of elaborate things within the family- plays, carols, treasure hunts etc. to me Father Christmas is another such thing. I grew up with a Mother who provided similar opportunities to indulge this side of childhood but with a Father who is a Dawkins obsessive and would without fail be grumpy every Christmas. He didn't really believe in 'childhood' - all it has served to do for me and my brother is to go to great lengths to indulge our own children!

I'd much rather have my child believe in Father Christmas than Jesus.

And if you're talking to him about what Christmas is really about, I do hope you told him it came from the Winter Solstice, and was taken over by Christians. Because effectively you're replacing one fairy tale with another otherwise.

Really can't get past you having to shit on magic to win an argument with a child.

At the end of the day you are the parent and you get to decide.

I do wonder about the use of the terms patronise and lying though when there are plenty would would strongly argue that what you are doing is just that.

Anyway, I do accept and acknowledge that it is hard if you go against the grain. We had wanted to be low key about Santa really - one present from Santa and no mention of being good or bad. But when your child interacts with lots of others in different child care environments it isn't possibly to retain complete control. We still send the messages but I accept that the outside world influences my child

The way I see it is that I've waited my whole to meet these people- my DC that are extraordinary, everyone and everything seem 'ordinary' in comparison. There is plenty of time for 'ordinary' but at the moment these people deserve more than that, being on the receiving end of 'reality' as a child (like I was from my Dad) isn't desired and is lazy parental technique!

I agree it gets more and more ridiculous, apps etc and more elaborate ways of "keeping track of Santa".

We haven't told our DDs the truth, as I don't want them to tell anyone else's child, but we don't take part in the myth making. But then they know we don't believe in God, and sometimes it annoys me that Santa is like a religion in which we must all participate or be "bad parents ", "Scrooge", not making Xmas magic etc.

If my DD told another child that she doesn't believe in God, that would be fine, as the child's parents could explain that different people have different beliefs etc. But heaven forbid a child tells another that Santa doesn't exist! It makes life awkward at Xmas not being able to be honest with DDs for fear of being the Grinch!

Rant over, but I feel your pain OP.

My eldest is 10 and still believes. Probably our last year with him believing but I don't see a problem with it.

DD learnt all sorts of stories about santa from her peers at school, she decided he wasn't real, just like witches, fairies, wizards, dragons etc. and that the elves would've been slaves (after a discussion on slavery)

She's 4.5, yet she plays along with the story along with anyone else, other than when adults are over the top about him being real and she is worried they don't understand it's a story.

I'm sure most kids are in the same boat, they go along with the story, they know it's a story.

Amused that you are not happy with children believing in a man with a beard who judges them on being good but happy to have them believe in an omniscient being who will decide whether you go to heaven or hell when you die based on whether you are 'good' or not...

Also agree with disappointedone, Christmas traditions mostly come from the Pagan festival of Yule which just happened to be on 25th December. Not like the Christians just nicked that date and decided it just so happened to be when Jesus was born or anything .....

it's too much BS, elf on a shelf, tracking Santa, having breakfast with Santa, visiting live reindeer, I can't get my head around lying that much. Christmas is not about getting a shit load of presents from Father Christmas, he is part of the story. It's all well and good doing all this stuff for fun, but when you don't exactly have a lot of spare cash to throw at Christmas you want to keep it homely and low key. I'm not spending a lot of money on what I think is just one big marketing exercise to get parents to spend far too much money. keeping our kids in the belief of Santa that little big longer means the gullible will spend even more next year on Xmas cos 11 yr old Tommy wants an IPhone from Santa.

Parents bragging about elves and Elaborate and expensive Santa visits in front of little children who aren't going to get that, really boil my piss. Competitive Christmas, what do these people want a gold star? Im so happy for their children, I'm sure their childhoods will be supremely richer, but don't make my children and anyone else struggling financially feel left out of the magic. Yes we have gifts, nice food and family time planned and we kept to budget, but I feel twitchy that next year I've got to compete with this when my eldest starts school.

Yes I'm Christian too and God forbid I should have talked about giving something to those less fortunate.

I don't want my kids growing up demanding more and more at Christmas because they 'believe'. If you can't build long-lasting family traditions this time of year without relying on Santa (or Jesus as DSS is atheist) then there is something wrong IMO.

Who cares if Christmas was originally Yule, was St Nicholas a pagan? What is the modern Christmas message? It's just getting very vulgar IMO.

Parents bragging about elves and Elaborate and expensive Santa visits in front of little children who aren't going to get that, really boil my piss.

So parents shouldn't talk about anything they do with their kids, in case a child overhears that doesn't do it? Does that apply all year round?

It may surprise you to know that many people do all the Santa stuff and the religious aspect (if that's what bothers you).

Mum is very religious. She took the kids to see reindeers and Santa this year and she took them to the panto. We did Elf on the shelf and still talked about Jesus and the religious message of Christmas.

We did a food bank shop and the kids took it with us. A friend works in a homeless shelter and we went over and donated and I helped out for a few days.

I am not religious at. I really don't like organised religion at all. You can still talk about Jesus, the nativity, helping people less fortunate, the pagan origins (mil is pagan so helps there) and taking kids to see Santa and spend December trying to find yet another place for the bloody elf.

Why people get so snotty about how other people celebrate is beyond me.

It's Christmas, you know 'Good will to all people' and all that.

How exactly is the OP unreasonable to refer to Santa, not Father Christmas?

Where I'm from, Santa is what 'he' is traditionally called. I see this every year on mumsnet and it baffles me.

I think people spend too much of their time worrying about what others are doing/saying/spending about Christmas. How does it affect you? You do your thing, I'll do mine and hopefully we'll all have a lovely day.

Well 'Santa' is yet another Americanisation of British culture. I think it's quite important that we refrain from constantly celebrating another country's traditions - we are after all not American!

Ok GoldenBear, pack your tree away (German) and make no mention whatsoever of Father Christmas (American).

I expect you've been wassailing this morning?

OP, I'm with you. I love 'Father Christmas' as a game we play but I hate the lies. I hate children being told they won't get presents on Christmas day if they aren't good [though in everyday life I understand the need to withhold treats or provide rewards as part of behaviour management].

Its possible to explain 'Santa' as a game and still play the game happily with your child/ren. They don't have to believe that some old bloke in a red suit is going to sneak into their houses bringing gifts in order to enjoy the game.

There's a 'double bind' going around that I didn't hear of until this year. After lying to children to say Santa is bringing toys, parents are now lying to say children will be going to nursery/school on 25 December. Apparently its 'really funny' to see them worried and confused. I don't think its funny at all.

I know a year 8, not sure whether she is 12 or 13, who still believes, which I find incredible. My DD is 12 and she knows it's me but we still do everything as if it's Father Christmas and she's just as excited as she has ever been.

You had better stop singing O Little Town of Bethlehem and Away in a Manger too (both written by Americans). Oh, and Silent Night as well (originally written in German). Enough with your cultural appropriation. Stick to your own traditions.

Tongue in cheek, obviously.

Father Christmas predates the discovery of the Americas by Europeans by quite a margin.

He's a version of the pagan Green Man, and English written accounts begin in the 1400s (and strongly suggest that it was recording a much longer oral tradition).

Santa isn't an Americanisation . He's Santa in Ireland and, as far as I know Scotland. In fact dh and I were just commenting yesterday that ds must have watched too much TV because he asked if Father Christmas would be bringing presents. He has never heard anyone in 'real life' say Father Christmas because everyone where we live would refer to Santa Claus.

Well I am English not Irish and these imports maybe 'fun' but they're not our traditions. 'Santa' most certainly is an American import- my Mother, Grandmother would 'never' refer to Santa.

I'm curious Planter- how is Father Christmas considered American?

Father Christmas is not unknown in the US, but I think that the Dutch Sinterklaas-St. Nicholas-Santa Claus became predominate because of the association with gift giving and with children, associations that FC did not have.

Well I am English not Irish and these imports maybe 'fun' but they're not our traditions. 'Santa' most certainly is an American import- my Mother, Grandmother would 'never' refer to Santa
As above. We were told 'Santa' was an Americanism, when we were children.

Maybe some of the 'Santas' were imported from Ireland and maybe Scotland too if they say it! It might not have all come from the US. I say Father Christmas myself but I think there's a lot worse out there than Santa Claus!

Back to the op, I do think there is a bit of competitiveness to be really Christmassy. I think, like many things, this is heavily influenced by social media and this need people have to present a perfect life to the world. My dd is too young to understand about FC yet but I must admit I don't think I'll be up to all the lies. I won't tell her it's fake but I think I'll keep pretty quiet apart from saying 'FC's coming soon' or whatever. I'll leave the main excitement building about him to my dp and to dd's grandparents.