To let my baby catch chicken pox?

[Rumplestrumpet]

In brief, my husband, baby and me are due to go away for 3 days with another family next week. They're a lovely couple though, tbh, our husbands have nothing in common, so it's really just us wives pushing it. She told me yesterday that her son has come down with chicken pox. Our baby is almost 6 months old and has never had it, though DH and I have.

I spoke to my HV today and she was very relaxed about it - they have to get it at some point, at least now you're on mat leave so won't have to take time off to look after her. She is exclusively breast fed so you can comfort her with the breast - it's your call.

DH would happily ditch the whole thing, but I feel like I still want to go... But then I will feel terribly if baby catches it and is in a lot of pain....

Anyone had a small baby with chicken pox? Is it really awful? ie worse than when they're older?

Welcome advice please!

"IT means your baby was exposed to the virus first and their sibling caught it from them."

You think I don't know that?

"you can't keep saying that people who have been vaccinated need to have lifelong boosters"

I didn't say they NEED TO. I said they POSSIBLY MAY.

As you say, there is no data available to say one way or the other. Hence, it would be a good idea to keep vigilant and test the immunity of your teenagers at some point if their booster was many years ago.

...and then be aware that if they do need subsequent boosters, the vaccine is less effective in adults.

My DB had chicken pox and had 12 spots on his back. I went on to develop it and was covered quite literally from head to toe. Sores through my scalp, in my arm pits, throughout my genitals. It was horrendous. I've since gone on to have shingles, most notably following the nerve through my breast when suffering mastitis while recovering from a c-section. Don't, OP, please don't.

"What I have had, repeatedly, is Shingles. Because the virus mutates."

That is not why you get shingles.

"Both of my children have had chicken pox several times each"

BOTH your children have had it not only twice but SEVERAL times? Can there be an immune system problem in your family?

Once you have chicken pox, the virus remains in your body. That means you don't "catch" it again. Subsequent bouts of the virus typically present as shingles.

I wouldn't vaccinate my child for chickenpox (have had the vaccine myself) but neither would I expose my DC under a year old to it.

TBH, I doubt that a healthy EBF baby would catch it, or be very poorly if they did, but it's not worth the risk, IMO. I've known toddlers be hospitalised with chicken pox.

My DC had it a 1 year, 2 years and on their 3rd birthday (I have 3 DC). They were lucky that it wasn't a big deal for them, and as I wasn't working I missed no time off. But I wouldn't suggest anyone expose their baby to it if avoidable.

I would still go. The child who has it now won't be contagious. The sibling might but he might not. And anyone you meet out and about could be contagious. And you're ebf. If your ds gets it it's likely to be mild. So I wouldn't worry and just go and enjoy yourself!

I'm not sure there's a need to be aggressive on a thread about chicken pox.

Wow Cote Berkshire has a medical break though, why are they keeping this to themselves? They really should inform the rest of the NHS as they state Yes, it is possible to get chickenpox more than once.

If a virus is very common and particular complications are rare it could still be appear common to the general public as there is still a huge number of people with the complications, IYSWIM ?

TBH, I doubt that a healthy EBF baby would catch it, or be very poorly if they did

This is not necessarily the case:
kellymom.com/bf/can-i-breastfeed/meds/vaccine-protection/

It's awful having a sick child, it's even worse having a sick baby. You've no idea if your baby will catch CP, you've no idea if your baby will be mildly ill or very ill. As cote said above, it's about risk management.

Yes Scared, we are all aware that it is possible to get chicken pox more than once. I didn't say it wasn't. I said it was so rare to get it twice "that information leaflets such as this one by Royal Berkshire NHS Foundation Trust say "Once you have had chickenpox you cannot catch it a second time."

Incidentally, that is also what NHS says on this page titled Can I get chickenpox more than once?, where they answer "Yes, it is possible to get chickenpox more than once, but this is extremely rare".

Yup DS2, 9 months at the time, breast fed and BLW caught CP off a 5 month old EBF babys toy. I don't know how the toy was fed.

Vote I have already said I'm going to screen my children as adolescents. I just don't like the way you shoot down posters with old science. That research was undertaken when children only had one vaccine and no booster. Medical science has moved on. I think you need to read your science reports more carefully before posting.

I am under no illusions than just because my children have had all their vaccines including CP they will always be immuned. I know the science behind my decision, what I really hate is people advising others on their own anecdotal evidence that it's best for children to catch these viruses as children without knowing if that child could go on to develop complications or even develop life long immunity. Btw I am not accusing you of justifying that OP should expose her DC to CP.

captain - I think you need to read the thread properly. I posted a research paper that showed that vaccine immunity wanes, and I did that to help Fanny who couldn't find one.

I am well aware that boosters are done for that reason.

I am also aware that there is no data that shows you can expect to be immune for life after the booster.

All we know is that vaccine immunity wanes.

"what I really hate is people advising others on their own anecdotal evidence that it's best for children to catch these viruses as children.."

I don't think anyone is advising people based on anecdotal evidence. It is a fact that complications are less likely in childhood which is why it is 'best for children to catch these viruses'. People are just stating that fact.

Tbh most of the advice I've seen is people saying 'get the vaccine'. Why are you ok with people saying that when you don't know if that child will have complications or not develop immunity?

My baby caught it at 6 weeks old (before he was immunised) and ended up in hospital. It was horrible.

Well I am not advising anyone to do anything. You have people on this thread who seem to think only immuno-compromised children get complications, that a child can only catch chickenpox once, that the vaccine will not last beyond 10-20 years. People say a lot of stuff based on their own limited experience and not fleas fully aware of the facts.

If someone wants to control when their child catches chickenpox in order to develop immunity and get it out of the way so it is convenient for them, then why not advise vaccination instead? You know some people buy chickenpox lollies off the internet and organise pox parties to get their children immune. Surely you are playing a bit of a lottery as to whether your child gets a severe case or not? Deliberately making your kids ill for the sake of immunity... It's not something I am comfortable with but each to their own.

bumbleymummy what evidence is there for it being "a fact that complications are less likely in childhood"?

CaptainProton I agree, however research on identification of more subtle immuno-incompetences is still not very advanced, therefore many people considered immuno competent in this regard may in fact not be (so a researcher in this field tells me!).

Thanks bluesmarties, I think you have to assume you are otherwise immunocompetent. But I still think it's a good idea to get blood tests done in adolescence to see which viruses you do or do not have immunity.

BlueSmarties - haven't you read any of the links on this thread? Did you miss all the information about there being a higher risk of complications in adults?

Here's the NHS link for you again:

"Chickenpox tends to be more severe in adults than children, and adults have a higher risk of developing complications."

"You have people on this thread who seem to think only immuno-compromised children get complications, that a child can only catch chickenpox once, that the vaccine will not last beyond 10-20 years."

Where? I don't think anyone has said that only immunocompromised children are at risk of complications. (Although they are the group more likely to suffer complications). I think it was Cote who was accused of saying children only have it once and she has answered that at length. Re the vaccine - the booster was introduced in 2006 so how do you know it lasts longer than 10-20 years?

Cote

That's like saying that you can only catch the common cold once... and then never again, for the rest of your life. There are different strains of chicken pox. Because, just like the common cold, it is a virus. And they are renowned for mutating, developing resistance to antibiotics/vaccines, and - in the case of chicken pox becoming shingles. Because I had such a bad dose of one strain of chicken pox as a baby (apparently, my older brothers - one 10, one 14 - only had about 30 sores... oh, wait: spots! The fact that they're weeping, open VZV infested sores - with VZV being one of 8 forms of the Herpes virus to infect humans - I guess ought not to be mentioned in case it upsets those of delicate sensibilities/who have a desire to hold Pox Parties so that they can continue to spread this form of Herpes around their innocent children and those who do have compromised immune systems!) the virus mutated to a point within my still forming immune system so that, for the last 40 years, I've not been infected with any strain of chicken pox since. My entire body was covered, the sores were inside my ears, my mouth, and I was hospitalised because of it. Instead of a "few, pesky spots" now, I get the heavily mutated form of it - Shingles. Which, I don't know if you're aware, is a reactivation of the chicken pox virus - say, by being around someone who has chicken pox (I actually caught it the first time from my DD, when she had her first bout of 'the pox', aged 14 months - she had five spots. A year later, she caught it again and was librally covered). Shingles is where the chicken pox virus stays in the nerve cells of a person's body, and actively affects the nerve endings. If it ends up in the eyes, you can go blind because of it.

So for you to spread the Old Wives Tale that "you cannot catch Shingles from Chicken Pox..." alongside the "you can't catch Chicken Pox more than once!" is, in my opinion heavily irresponsible, and actually quite dangerous. Because it shows a steady and somewhat arrogant refusal to take into account the heavily documented - by scientists and doctors alike - fact that, in this case, what you have touted as being truth on this thread alone, is wrong. Honestly, it's like you're saying "oh, and don't let your child go outside with wet hair, dearie; they'll catch a cold if they do!" (because that's an Old Wives Tale, too, ie, proven to be inaccurate!).

There are a lot of us who have posted here, and many more who I'm sure haven't, who are living proof that chicken pox is nasty, it can be caught more than once, it mutates, and the OP and others like her really do not want to run the risk of their babies/small children ever ending up with Shingles in their lives.

If you've only ever had chicken pox once, and have never had shingles, then that's great for you. But it doesn't mean that your experience is the norm. Just as mine isn't either. Every one is different, after all.

No immune system problems in my family, either. Just a steady comprehension and awareness that Old Wives Tales are precisely that. Stories, because frankly, I think I'll trust the word of a medically qualified paeds consultant who spent years training in his field (my oldest DB), and my/my DC's own doctors, over yours regarding the "does chicken pox become shingles?" debate, thanks.

You don't catch shingles from exposure to chicken pox but can get chicken pox from exposure to shingles. Shingles is not mutated chicken pox but a reactivation of it so you can't get shingles unless you have had chicken pox in the past.

I have read that after you have had chicken pox then exposure to wild chicken pox can help prevent shingles from occurring but don't know if that's true.

We know that exposure to chickenpox can significantly prevent or delay shingles (by exogenous boosting of immunity).6Increased annual chickenpox rates in children under 5 are associated with reduced shingles in the 15–44 age group.

From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2563790/

"That's like saying that you can only catch the common cold once... and then never again, for the rest of your life. There are different strains of chicken pox. Because, just like the common cold, it is a virus."

The difference is that acquiring immunity to one strain of chickenpox means you are immune to all six strains, whereas this is not true for common cold.

The vaccine works on this basis, as well: You don't have all strains of chickenpox in the vaccine.

"for you to spread the Old Wives Tale that "you cannot catch Shingles from Chicken Pox..."

I haven't said anything if the sort. You might like to actually read a post before writing a page-long reply next time.

What I said was exactly what you said: That once you gave chicken pox, the virus remains in the body and can reactivate in the form of shingles. This can happen at any time - not necessarily when there are children with chicken pox around you - since you already have the virus.