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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think its a disgrace that Cameron is going to stop lifetime council tenancies

685 replies

sparklesandglitterxx · 17/12/2015 09:09

and think that that is NOT the solution to the housing crisis?

the solution as far as i can see it is, lots and lots more council houses need to be built, regulation in private renting needs to be improved, and GENUINELY affordable houses to buy for those on low wages that wish to or are able to buy

fed up of seeing the great things about Britain being chipped away. Why punish renters? The whole Tory attitude towards council housing being a last resort for the destitute disgusts me. council housing needs to be brought back to what it was originally meant for...which is a decent secure home for anyone who wants one. i live on a council estate which is a mix of council, HA and bought. People stay here, they build lives here, generally it is a lovely community. i have never been happier or more settled anywhere i have lived, I have done well in my life and been able to have a big family. my children are happy and thriving at school and have lots of friends. My point is if these changes go through, they will end up DESTROYING communities like ours and so many others. The Tories just seem to want everyone either paying their landlord mates every penny they earn or pushing up house prices by buying. But not everyone wants to buy, and more importantly not everyone CAN buy, (I have friends on good money who are still priced out the market) and hardly anyone would actually CHOOSE to be in insecure, expensive private rented !! I also think that if more people are in secure housing, it will help peoples mental health (hence cutting costs in mental health services), it will improve childrens chances in life, as they wont have to keep moving schools and away from friends etc, it will encourage people to better themselves, it will cut the HB bill, and also with people spending less on their rent they will have more to spend in the economy, thus boosting it!

I also suspect it wont end here....while it will be for new tenants only to start with, i would imagine it will end up being everyone in council / HA

OP posts:
DeoGratias · 21/12/2015 09:51

I certainly expect to work until I die without much of a pension (yet another reason women should never give up full time work and always seek the highest paid careers rather than being muggins at home with no pay and no appreciatio).

Alfieisnoisy · 21/12/2015 10:02

Yes Xenia ...er I mean Deo, I also expect to work until I die. Successive Govts of varying persuasions are making sure of that.

leaningtoweroflego · 21/12/2015 10:13

"One could probably have expected friends or family to assist in a fall."

And we've come full circle.

I posted earlier (but I don't think anyone responded to it) - doesn't anyone care about community anymore?

If you let people stay in council property for life, you build strong communities, and when old people have falls, they have friends and family around them to help.

If everyone is expected to be prepared to move on, whether council tenant, private renters or owner-occupiers chasing work opportunities, then more people will grow old in areas where they have no community roots - or, more likely, that their younger generation have been forced to move away.

Add into the mix the social cleansing that's going in it big cities ith the benefits cap driving families out, and families being rehoused in areas they have no ties because of the bedroom tax and there are massive changes going on in society which are working to break down communities.

Why are we not up in arms about this?

The big society? What a joke.

GinIsTheBestChristmasSpirit · 21/12/2015 10:17

Council houses are brilliant but should be for those in desperate need. They should be secure for long periods but not necessarily for life. If a tenant has a big circumstance change surely it is fairest if they are given a decent notice period and sent back onto the private rental/open market so others in greater need can take on the council tenancy?

Realistically money needs to go into sorting out the private rental market. There are so many unscrupulous landlords it is ridiculous. Put money into finding and prosecuting/fining landlords who refuse to do basic repairs, suddenly jack up rent to insane proportions etc.

AppleSetsSail · 21/12/2015 10:23

Yes Xenia ...er I mean Deo, I also expect to work until I die. Successive Govts of varying persuasions are making sure of that.

The government has no say in how long you work, it's how you structure your finances that determines how long you work.

Add into the mix the social cleansing that's going in it big cities ith the benefits cap driving families out, and families being rehoused in areas they have no ties because of the bedroom tax and there are massive changes going on in society which are working to break down communities.

Governments have destroyed communities by infantalising its citizens and paying them to stay home.

DeoGratias · 21/12/2015 10:38

Apple tells it as it is. The left are about keeping citizens as children. You could see it with the Labour lot even having those on £60k a year recipients of child tax credits at one point. It is a deliberate method to retain the strings over citzen as puppet depending on the state. Also if you are well enough working until you die is not a bad thing. Many older people adore their jobs. It also helps tackle the issue of loneliness and lack of sense of purpose amongst the elderly.

DeoGratias · 21/12/2015 10:38

My children's last grandfather died this year. He worked at least one day at week at 90 and his first book came out at aged 89. A great example to us all.

AndNowItsSeven · 21/12/2015 10:42

Apple no government has paid people to stay at home.
It's a good suggestion though. I have always thought it crazy that it costs " the hard working tax payer" more to pay for childcare via tax credits plus WTC than it would to pay a mother to stay at home with her own under five.

ginorwine · 21/12/2015 10:49

Deo agreed re credits
We were on a joint income of 42 k and were eligible ! What's that about ! Our friends deliberately worked minimum hours they could so that they had child and work tax credit , days out , getting up late on taxpayers money whilst public resources clearly stretched to the limit .im not blaming them and I would not want that lifestyle myself as I thrive on a bit more adrenalin , but surley that shows an example of how good housekeeping is needed financially speaking .if people need it that's different but for some to choose such a lifestyle at the expense of others wellbeing etc is morally wrong to me .

ginorwine · 21/12/2015 10:52

And I agree re childcare
However see my eg re pay folk be at home . Course people get paid for that .

Nataleejah · 21/12/2015 11:17

What are the chances of being totally skint/ shit job for a minimum wage to becoming a CEO in 5 years?

AppleSetsSail · 21/12/2015 11:22

What are the chances of being totally skint/ shit job for a minimum wage to becoming a CEO in 5 years?

Not that great. Going from a shit job to a reasonably good one in five years time - far better.

Careers span a lifetime.

ginorwine · 21/12/2015 11:25

Nat
The apprentice winner did it I think ?
However, I get your point .
I have a degree , a post grad , and a professional qualification and I would never make that either -
would imagine very few people do - but there are reasonable places in between the extremes .

ginorwine · 21/12/2015 11:28

Yes Apple - you work , you advance .eg
A pals daughter left school and worked for Macdonalds .
She stayed she worked hard - she now has a management position and decent income .
She had to put the time in .

leaningtoweroflego · 21/12/2015 13:30

"The government has no say in how long you work" really?

It was the government who put up the to retirement age recently, wasn't it, or did I totally imagine that? Hmm

leaningtoweroflego · 21/12/2015 13:33

"Realistically money needs to go into sorting out the private rental market"

If council housing was much more freely available it would go a long way to sorting out the private rental market.

Simple supply and demand - if decent, affordable homes were in plentiful supply, unscrupulous landlords simply wouldn't be able to get away with extortionate rents or terrible conditions.

DyslexicScientist · 21/12/2015 13:49

Tax credits are ridiculous agree with pp postere.

My friends dh, gave up a well paid job to deliver pizzas for two shifts a week as he'd be on the same money.

AppleSetsSail · 21/12/2015 13:49

It was the government who put up the to retirement age recently, wasn't it, or did I totally imagine that?

Ah. If you want the government to support you in your retirement that's a completely separate matter. You're free to save money and enter into a private pension as far as I know.

AutumnLeavesArePretty · 21/12/2015 13:58

Tax credits were a disaster for our country. They weren't a safety net but a choice. One that allowed people not to work, do very little and continue to have children they wouldn't support.

In turn, that puts more pressure on housing and future pension provisions as less state money in the pot. Not to mention those children growing up will likely less work ethic so not replenishing the pot.

It's a disaster waiting to happen.

leaningtoweroflego · 21/12/2015 13:59

"My friends dh, gave up a well paid job to deliver pizzas for two shifts a week as he'd be on the same money."

Well he's an idiot. If he had a well paid job he presumably had a chance of doing something vaguely fulfilling and increasing his salary and prospects.

He's chucked his prospects away.

leaningtoweroflego · 21/12/2015 14:09

"If you want the government to support you in your retirement that's a completely separate matter. You're free to save money and enter into a private pension as far as I know."

Why do right wingers (which I assume you are, apologies if not) always seem to address the individual? Are you unable or unwilling to see the bigger picture?

I have no wish to be in a position where I rely solely on the state in my old age, but I recognise many have no choice.

DeoGratias · 21/12/2015 14:13

We see the bigger picture much better than the left. People do a lot better and work harder and feel happier when they support themselves. That is the key - that self reliance is hugely life enhancing. We make people happy and improve their lot.
Also we are not proposing to abolish basic state pension from age 70 but plenty of people choose to work beyond that date these days.

PeasinPod1 · 21/12/2015 14:18

Completely agree with Gin. Council homes are there for those in need enabling them to get out of a hole, get a job, get better wages, and move on- not just take it for granted and see it as a forever- how does this encourage people to aspire to do better and move up in life?

Just as being on jobseekers isn't a long term venture but as something to help you out of a situation when most in need- then stop and pass it on to others who become more in need than you.

AppleSetsSail · 21/12/2015 14:19

I have no wish to be in a position where I rely solely on the state in my old age, but I recognise many have no choice.

Why would you not have any choice? Surely your retirement is a reflection of the choices you make every day during your working life.

Alfieisnoisy · 21/12/2015 14:26

Apple, I'll give you just ONE reason why people might have to rely on state support. Being a Carer for a disabled relative which prevents you from working at all.

There are many other reasons and not all of them are about "poor choices".

This is what separates me from Tory policy...the fact they believe EVERYONE can be self sufficient "if only they make the right choices".

I didn't "choose" a disabled child.
I didn't "choose" to be a Carer rather than remain in work (which became impossible as he grew).
I didn't "choose" to be reliant on the state.

The ONE thing I have going for me is that I worked for 30 years and have a pension to come from that.
Not all Carers have the same good fortune.

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