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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be quite upset after helping out at DD's school?

74 replies

seamstressmummy · 16/12/2015 17:45

I volunteered to help with the costumes today and I was sitting with the other parents in the infant corridor (it's huge, more like a reception space).

DD's teacher was so shouty :( You could hear her giving the most unclear instructions and then shouting at the children when they didn't complete the task properly (I think it was a sort of colour by number). She was really so unpleasant to hear, I wouldn't have talked to my dog like that.

The other reception class were painting. They split the classes by age and playground gossip says they are a very young class who need a firm hand but their teacher was so firm in the nicest possible way. Listening to her teach was lovely. She was so clear and actually very strict, but in a really positive and gentle way IYKWIM.

I'm so down about DD being with Mrs Shouty :(

OP posts:

PiperIsTerrysChoclateOrange · 16/12/2015 19:17

I will not tolerate it, when I have shouted at my DC I have later apologised and explained that me shouting at them was wrong.

The fact that the school's have got the kids so hyped up with nativity plays, Christmas parties and doing a lot more fun things then the teachers must know that the kids are going to be excited and normal behaviour will resume after the Christmas season.

Onsera3 · 16/12/2015 19:28

It's not ok. With such small children it's actually really horrible.

I feel the way she was speaking indicates she doesn't respect the children. If you were having a difficult day you might raise your voice but that wouldn't make you mean to the children.

It's poor. This person needs some professional development if this is how they regularly talk to the children.

Once when I was teaching I had a role where I was often in the same room as people while they were taking their class. Most were great but some were awful. They really seemed to not like children and you wondered why they were even in the job. This was an inner city London secondary school and it was tough but the fact is plenty of us get by without speaking meanly to the children.

I would say something to the head. They could easily listen outside a few moments through a week to see if this is typical. Usually you know which teachers are shouty unless their classrooms are isolated.

slightlyglitterpaned · 16/12/2015 19:29

Surely the person who makes the final decision is the HT who has the opportunity to observe far more of Ms Shouty's teaching - if they know they may need to?

Am I just unaware of how schools work? Does one negative report from a parent cause immediate sanctions?

JoffreyBaratheon · 16/12/2015 19:34

I trained as a primary teacher, also in the days of one teacher, no TA and 35 kids and we were trained never to shout. The second you shout, you are actually giving the kids the message that you have lost control, is how I was taught to teach.

On my very first teaching practice, a male teacher said I was "very good but could do with shouting more"! Idiot. I ignored him and went on to be the only person on my course (of about 100 students) to get a distinction at Teaching Practice. So in my book bad teachers = shouty ones. A couple of my (much younger) friends have done PGCEs in the past couple of years and I'm afraid if I'm brutally honest - they no longer seem very well trained. There are some very inadequate teachers out there. My husband trained as a TA about 6 or 7 years ago now, and he came away with the same feeling (and that at one of Ofsted's 'outstanding' schools). Good teachers have no need to shout because they never lose control in the first place.

I perfected a Snape-like drop your voice so they go quieter to hear you method. Worked every time. Works in parenting, too.

BarbarianMum · 16/12/2015 19:40

My children have had shouty and non-shouty teachers. None have been mean. I'd be less upset at volume and more about content, esp with reception children.

LyndaNotLinda · 16/12/2015 19:42

I'm stressed at this time of year. I don't shout (very often). I'd email the head of year and say you were so impressed with one and so disappointed with the other. The shit sandwich approach is always good

Onsera3 · 16/12/2015 19:43

The HT only sees how the class teacher acts for observations or what she displays outside the classroom. They may well not have an accurate idea of how this person really teaches. Unless the room is in a location where you would overhear them as you go about the school.

I've seen the same with marking. You can tell which books the teacher sent off for checking if only a selection is asked for. Much better job than the inadequate attention paid to the rest of the books.

PerspicaciaTick · 16/12/2015 19:50

I was helping in DS school last term and had a really upsetting afternoon as I found one of the teachers really unpleasant and I was horrified at the way she was speaking and gesturing to the children.
When I picked DS up from school, I started chatting to him about his teachers, who he has for what topics, what he enjoys etc. Turns out that he and his friends think the unpleasant teacher is brilliant, really nice and funny and she is one of their favourites.

So I put it down to a bad afternoon and kept my thoughts to myself Not sure what I would have done if he felt as uncomfortable around her as I had felt.

SunsetDream · 16/12/2015 19:56

The head ought to know what they're like. Any head who doesn't shouldn't be doing the job.

IguanaTail · 16/12/2015 20:00

I had a shouty teacher as my neighbour a couple of years ago. Turned out she had cancer and she died within a couple of months.

GlitteringJasper · 16/12/2015 20:21

We have a 'no shouting' policy in our school.

We aren't allowed to shout and I don't see the point of it anyway. I use lots of strategies to keep order, when necessary, but I never shout.

tobysmum77 · 16/12/2015 20:26

I think yabu, she was having a bad day. It's right before Christmas, children are excitable. Dd said today her class were quite loud.

Original poster

seamstressmummy · 16/12/2015 20:28

Thanks all. I'm going to leave it for now but if I hear anything else from DD after Christmas I will go to the HT.

It's so good to have somewhere to discuss this, I was worried about making the wrong decision.

OP posts:

Domino777 · 16/12/2015 20:31

I think as long as you go to the head with your concerns rather then getting arsey.

ohtheholidays · 16/12/2015 20:38

I get it is really stressful.

I worked with children from when I was 16 and even as a hormonal teenager I never shouted at any of the children I looked after and it was a private badly run expensive for the parents Nursery and I could be on my own with nearly 30 2 year olds other days I'd be looking after the 3/4 year olds.

As a young adult I helped out and worked at a Nursery,Infants and Juniors that were all in what would be called a deprived area(not my words)Social services were heavily involved with alot of the family's and DV,drug and alcohol abuse,prostitution and pimping were just some of the things that some of the children were having to live with everyday.

So as you can imagine we faced looking after,teaching and trying to nurture some children that were going home everyday to a living nightmare and obviously because of that they're behaviour could reflect how they were feeling and what was going on at home.

But honestly hand on heart I never shouted at any of those children and I myself was in an abusive marriage at the time.

NewLife4Me · 16/12/2015 20:39

This is usual for the schools I have visited or my dc attended, they usually get a nicer teacher for the following year.
It doesn't seem to do them any harm and i also agree that the head probably knows already, unless they are the type to just visit school occasionally and never venture into classrooms or corridors.

ohthegoats · 16/12/2015 20:44

What do you want to have happen?

Original poster

seamstressmummy · 16/12/2015 20:47

I haven't a clue tbh! That's partly why I'm not going to see anyone this time.

OP posts:

Ipsos · 16/12/2015 20:54

I know a teacher who was a real shrieker in class when she taught whole classes, but it was because she was really quite timid and sensitive and couldn't cope with the stress of it. She later left and became a 1-2-1 remedial teacher and was the lovliest, gentlest person in the job. Possibly that teacher that you saw needs a bit of help or training to know how to do discipline (perhaps from the other teacher)?

shazzarooney99 · 16/12/2015 20:58

I think christmas is a really bad time for teachers, its massivley hectic, then a lot of the children with sen kick off because they are out of routine, they have lots of stuff to do, they will be shattered.

ohthegoats · 16/12/2015 20:59

I reckon that it'll be all about time of the term. 'Mean' is worth taking note of for the future, when it's not quite such a fraught time of the year.

Mmmmcake123 · 16/12/2015 21:05

I think you are doing the right thing by holding back before going to the ht, but if she is the same next time I would go straight away and talk about both occasions.
The head may know she can be shouty but she has a right to defend herself; if a parent has noticed it and gone to the head they can use this when approaching her and she would have to take it seriously, i.e. she couldn't say she was being treated unfairly.

MontyYouTerribleCunt · 16/12/2015 21:05

Interesting to read perpsicacia's post saying the DC preferred the 'shouty' teacher in her DS's school. I was listening to someone on the radio this morning and they said that usually children say their favourite teachers are the strictest ones. It made me think back to school and my favourite teacher was a sarcastic, bitchy, dictator... or at least that's how she would have seemed to a parent who happened to overhear one of her classes. In reality she was brilliant. Her mean seeming comments were actually really funny and we really loved not being patronised by her - she just kind of cut people dead with a dry comment if they were misbehaving and it was really enjoyable being in her class. She never shouted to be fair and we were a bit older than reception, but just a thought.

Anyway, I digress and I see the OP is leaving it for now unless she hears anything else from DD. Think that's probably a good plan.

gutrotwein · 16/12/2015 21:36

I don't think you should jump straight to the HT with this (if you decide to report her). It's like sentencing without a fair hearing!

The teacher has feelings, and, whatever the accusation, I'm sure she would prefer you to talk to her first. If nothing improves after that conversation, by all means approach the HT; at that stage, let the teacher know that you are going to report her.

I do think the teacher deserves a fair chance, especially as you are basing your judgement on a snapshot of an afternoon pre-Christmas.

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