How do I confront my mum without her blowing up?

[Confusedmomma]

I Have two children. A 6 year old and a 11 week old baby. My mums always been a bit of a takeover when it came to my eldest. But since my second she's got worse. She constantly undermines me. She'll tell my eldest yes , when I've said no and has a massive smirk on her face doing so. If my eldest hurts themselves she tries shoving me out of the way too soothe my 6 year old. With the newborn she tried to give him chocolate the other day and I said no she argued back and forth for a few minutes then gave in , but said you wait until Christmas Day I'll be sneaking the baby some! With the newborn she'll snatch them of the dad whilst he's doing a feed or barge him out the way if he's trying to do a nappy change cause she wants to do it. She looks at my partner funny when he's holding the newborn and make remarks like " they don't like that stop it!" Or I wouldn't have done that too one of mine. Me and my OH are dreading christmas at my mums because of this , but my mum is one of them you can't say she's annoying you because she takes it personally and acts the victim and the water works will start. I just don't know how to basically say stop undermining me without a massive confrontation :(

My (otherwise absolutely wonderful) DMum was like this for the first 2 years of DD1's life, although not as bad. Shortly before DD1 was 2, she was trying to override me, I was trying to say no, whilst being polite and non-confrontational, and she was ignoring me. Until her doing exactly what I'd asked her not to resulted in DD1 falling over and DM pulling her arm up behind her as she went. (She wasn't hurt, just a bit suprised) I saw red and shouted at DM to back the feck off. She tried the "we'll have to agree to disagree" line to which I shouted "You're too damn right we disagee! She's MY child, NOT YOURS!" I would have felt awful, but I was too cross to care at that point. Thankfully, the atmosphere blew over surprisingly quickly, and all was forgiven, but she doesn't ignore my wishes about our DDs anymore.

As PPs have said, you need to speak to her, confrontation or not. Or you might just end up blowing your top at her on Christmas day. Good Luck!

I know lemon I was around 33ish before I started. It has to be done.

OP you can't avoid one or the other.. Let the drama happen and tell your siblings to keep out of it. You are a mother and it's your job to protect your kids. Stand up to your mother or you'll have years of hell.

It will be painful for you to do, but she is used to getting her own way withyou and she is used to dominating you. I had this too. You just have to pull back on her and say no.
There is no easy way but it is not okay that she does this to you and you need to stop allowing her to do this.
All the crying, screaming and tantrums that's follow (and they do) you just have to be firm and say no. Be prepared for explosions but stick to your guns, it is better for you and your relationship, and your kids and her relationship,that you do this now. It teaches your kids how to set boundaries with people and not get walked over (as you do).
Come on, you really want this for you and your kids. So J ust say no to her and pull her up when you need to. If she comes at you like a bull then put lots of space between you and her (in terms of contact) until she is willing to listen to you and honor what you have to say.
Good luck xx

You've got decades of this ahead if you don't sort it out now. And the impact will be a million times worse when the kids get older and will use her comments to justify behaviour you don't like - 'well, Nan lets us do x,y, and z'.
Bite the bullet now and save yourself years of grief.

If you've grown up with one like her you've been trained to give in in the face of confrontation, so it will be very hard to confront her. But I'll tell you something, see when you do, you realise actually there is a limit to the amount of drama one person can kick up, and if you refuse to engage with it, she's got nothing.

Confront her on neutral territory or at her house as long as you can make a quick exit. If she turns on the waterworks tell her she's being ridiculous and you're not enaging with it and get out. If you don't want to go for Christmas, don't, and tell her why - if she wants a relationship with you all, she needs to know she's out of order. If she just wants to bully you and lord it over everyone, tell her where to go. And don't feel guilty. I bet you bend over backwards to make Christmas nice and suit all her foibles - what does she do to make it a nice Christmas for everybody? Not much I bet.

Its a horrible situation but you have to confront her, and have an ultimatum which you stick to.

You have to calmly say "Stop. Stop undermining me. If this does not stop right now, we will not be coming to you for Christmas."

Then stop talking. If she cries and rants let her. If she twists what happens and sends your siblings (I believe the phrase is "flying monkies" - Wicked Witch from Wizard of Oz reference I think) then calmly hear them out and then reply that she needs to stop undermining you, and refuse to engage further - say you have to go and do something else.

If she keeps undermining you don't go for Christmas and weather the sibling storm. Once she has seen you mean it she may well change her tune (at least for a while) and reign it in a bit. If not cut down contact a lot - become more formal.

I don't know how people stay sane with daily/ weekly contact with parents like this - in all honesty in your position I would move at least 100 miles away... I did

Do you really have to have Christmas there? She's threatening to do something potentially harmful to your baby. I wouldn't care about upsetting her.

gamerchick could be describing my own experience. It really takes practice being assertive with a parent like this. You have to retain the moral high ground by being the calm, rational one, or they'll start characterising you as a child/teenager again. Could you invite her out/over for a coffee to discuss terms before Christmas arrives? I found it useful with my mum to totally depersonalize things - so it wasn't me saying

"I just don't know how without her twisting it and making herself look the victim."

A letter / email?

Mum,

I love you dearly and the following points might upset you, but your attitude and behaviour over these things has been upsetting me greatly. I do not want an argument. My wishes ate non-negotiable. I want you to respect me as a parent.

I'm afraid if you can't respect the following, then I will be declining our invitation this Christmas and re-considering what sort of a relationship we can have in the future.

I have asked you not to feed the baby. You must respect this.

You may not do X. It makes me feel like Y.

etc etc.

My mother has form for the crying if anything (personal) doesn't go her way thing - definitely have the conversation in a cafe if you can... I bet she won't cry there... Also you can so easily leave. Don't have the conversation in your home as she may be very difficult to get rid of until she has worn you down with crying and recriminations and poor little me acts and claiming she was "only doing her best" and "its only because I love you/ them" and you have found yourself in the astounding position of apologising to her and promising that of course you'll be at hers for Christmas and keep on seeing her more often than ever...

If you continue to pander to her needs then your mother will continue to be a crazy bitch. You need to stand up to her - its going to happen at some point so why not before Christmas!

She sounds like a right pain. I'd just cut her out to be honest. Stand up for your family. Giving a newborn chocolate is fucking stupid, why put your baby where someone is going to do something harmful?

You can blame her all you want. But if you allow her into your life it's your decision and the consequences are on you.

Manipulative people have standard tactics:
Ride over anything you say and rely on you being too polite to stand up to them
If you stand up to them the try to use your innate sense of niceness and guilt to fake being upset so you feel sorry for them, (note - they are pure ego and don't give a shit about you)
If you really stand up to them they rally all their little supporters (the bully's lieutenants - proverbially known as the flying monkeys) to come round and give you guilt and rely on your innate sense of guilt and niceness etc etc

The only way to deal with this is to say no, and keep saying no, and finally stop talking to them all. Note - flying monkeys are very motivated to keep you in the loop as the victim because if you drop out of the family circle one of THEM will end up the victim, and they will do anything to avoid this.
Never EVER try to reason with them as they are inherently unreasonable and will only try to make out you are at fault (note - in their heads, they are never in the wrong).

You are at a major disadvantage as you have been conditioned to your mother's bullying since birth.

I watched my parents be destroyed by my bullying, manipulative, utterly selfish grandmother and I highly recommend you don't let your children witness that.

There is a very good site "daughters of narcissistic mothers" and I highly recommend you read this, plus your DH and then work out the united message you are both going to feed back to your mother. Now you are a parent you notice your mother's tactics - I bet she did the divide and conquer and sneaky behind the back manipulating to you and your siblings when you were growing up - you just didn't notice it then.
My grandmother's favourite tactic for attention was having "an attack" or "stroke" - she must have had one at every major family event for about 20 years. She played the "I'm dying" card for 20 years. How people fell for that I don't know but it screwed our family over and it's into the third generation now.

I pulled away and dropped out fo family life - best thing I ever did.

Yes, she'll do drama, yes, she'll drag the others in to increase the drama and put you back in your place. However, this will only work if you give in.

"Mum, I think it's best we dont come to yours at Christmas. You've already made it clear you're going to be undermining me regarding giving the baby foods they can't have yet, and even if you don't, I'm going to have a really crap day watching your every move. It's just not going to be a nice day, you've created all this tension, I think it's best we have some time apart from you." "Mum, you've caused this, you undermine my parenting all the time, I've had enough. I've tried asking you nicely, you ignore it. This is the best next option."

Have the row. Get it done.

Can you spend Christmas with your PIL instead?

but you need to pull her up each and every time she does it

This - it works best if you do it in a calm firm way - and just repeat if challenged.

I found long talks trying to reason with them didn't work.

Found immediately pointing out that NO - I've just said NO and it doesn't matter what they said. If they tried to paint me as the bad guy as isn't mummy being mean - its a NO GM/GD is being cruel and they know no means no. Explanations and reasoning was seen as weakness and ignored.

Couldn't trust them alone with DC for years - as they'd take opportunity to do what they'd been told not to - so they got watched and supervised till their attitudes change - which they did with time and as the DC grew up into nice happy children.

Both mine and DH parents did this to us - almost constant undermining. It's like they couldn't see us as adults or parents - it was quiet absurd at times things they thought they had says in.

Oddly both GM had similar with their IL and mothers - but kept quiet and seethed with resentment and sound very bitter at times now.

Marred the first few years of parenthood. It is much better now.

Had friends DH try it with me and my DC - he was constantly undermining his wife my friend with their's. Tried it twice Children got told to ignore and listen to me their parent and he got told not to do that. He did stop which was all I cared about though got impression from then on he didn't like me or want his wife to be friends any more.

Had other roped in to tell us how awful we were - especially me I was the devil incarnate for some of IL friends.

I got to point I didn't care and it was very liberating.

I did well if they are saying that behind my back what do you think they says to me and others behind yours? As well as calm well what they suggested didn't work for us but they know where we are to talk to us directly.

Sometime had to point out that they could be great with them but they weren't behaving that way with us and really how was this their business.

Again you don't have to be rude or nasty just refuse to explain and stick to what you are saying.

So what if she & your siblings go mad?

You won't be there to see it!

If you can't stand up to her when she's there, avoid her!

Did I understand corretly that she snatches the baby from your husband whist he's doing a feed?

What does he do/say?-or you?

She be out of the house PDQ if she treated my husband like that.

OP. Do not go there for Xmas. Your mother is a disrespectful person who is manipulating and undermining you both as parents.

Snatching a baby from it's father is not ok.
Making rude comments on your parenting is not ok.
Telling your son "yes" after you've said no is not ok.
Sneaking a baby chocolate against the wishes of it's parents is not ok.

You wouldn't put up with this behaviour from someone else, and you do not have to simply grit your teeth and put up with it because it's your mother.

Tell her in calm, measured tones that you have both decided not to spend the day at hers and outline the reasons why. "Your behaviour and attitude towards us as parents is disrespectful and upsets us. You do not get to go over my head when it comes to my children." Repeat. Let her cry. Repeat.

If she creates drama with your siblings, let her.
Your family (dh and children) are more important then them.

Tears and tantrums are just that, she won't die from her histrionics. When she starts the drama look at her as you would a tantruming toddler, she'll be easier to deal with then.

If she starts the nonsense on Christmas be prepared to walk out and mean it.

If you are not wanting to 'fall out' with your DM then it will be difficult.
If you are not the confrontational type then its no good telling you to confront her.
What about your DP though? Would you be prepared to let him deal with her? If he does then you would have to back him 100%.
I doubt your mother or your siblings are going to magically change so really you have to be prepared to have a fall out.
Not being around your mother will feel strange because you have always allowed her to be the one in control but you have to let her know she cannot make the decisions about how things are done with your children.

If my mother had been like this and I didn't do anything about it my DP certainly would. He would not have allowed her to undermine his parenting whether I liked it or not! She would have been firmly put in her place,..as your mothher should.

I would work out which are important and which aren't, to be honest i would gladly give up EVERY nappy change, if there was a willing volunteer.

So make your fight about a few really important things, like choccy to an 11 week old

First thing I'd be doing would be having Christmas without her.

My mam was like this always undermining me.In the end i had to to go no contact for a while.Of course i had people saying i was awful but you know what you have to put your own kids first.If you dont then who will.Because she will turn on them next you know that.

Your not going to enjoy Christmas if your going to have to watch her like a hawk so you might as well get it out of the way.

My mam was much better,we had a talk and i made her realise that i was an adult and have a right to bring my children up my way.

Plan Christmas day at yours and confront her.

TBH Christmas Day at your mother's sounds far too stressful and not worth keeping quiet for.

I'm 39. I've just started standing up to my parents, and they don't like it one bit. We're currently not talking. And I don't care. I'm not going to spend time with people who upset me, or don't listen to me. But it's taken me almost 40 years to get to this point, and if I'd stood up to them a bit more when I was younger, it maybe wouldn't have come to such a nasty head. It really was the straw that broke the camels back.