to ask that if you are thinking of getting a pet, to read this first

[coffeeisnectar]

I want people to properly research everything about an animals needs, life expectancy, behaviour and costs as well as no such time is needed before getting anything.

This month I have taken on another cat (our third) because it's owners now have a baby. She is not the only one, I know someone else trying to get rid of their cat as they now have a baby. I could scream.

Animals are expensive, a lifelong commitment and not some toy to play with until you get bored, have a baby or just can't be bothered any more.

Yanbu.
I used to work for a huge company and it had an intranet with a staff for sale / wanted board. I remember seeing an ad from someone trying to rehome a pregnant cat because they didn't think kitten mess and poo would go with their new baby. They even suggested that it might be a nice little earner for someone as the kittens could be sold. As well as being angry that they didn't just get their cat spayed, it broke my heart to think of the poor thing being uprooted. I bet it had a nice spot picked out to have its kittens and instead ended up God knows where.

They don't need a dog anymore? My heart breaks. I got a dog partly for the dc but he is my dog - I'm the adult.
The high maintenance tortoises sound awesome though.

Meanwhile - along with Vets bills etc another consideration is support/care when you go on holiday or away especially if it's frequent. We bought a static van last year. I knew when I bought it this pretty much ruled out any pet except a dog because we go most summer weekends and school holidays. Though it partly facilitated getting the dog he bloody loves it.
My gorgeous cherished parrot died a few months back but I won't replace her because of the van - getting friends to feed her/nanny her was getting really complicated not to mention unfair on her.
Cattery/kennel fees are very very expensive not to mention not spontaneous arrangements. A good friend and I got our dogs around the same time knowing we would provide reciprocal holiday care - our two will never go in kennels but again we planned for that before we looked at puppies.

Totally agreed with the original post! This drives me mad! DH has banned me from going onto gumtree because of how angry I get about the conditions of the rats on there.

I'd like to second/third/etc the people saying not to buy pets from pet shops, they really are awful in breeding a lot of the time, especially for small furries, please please do your research and find breeders where possible! And don't believe pet shops when they tell you that cages are big enough, it's only recently that I've seen the usual shops suggesting the Jenny cages for rats, even then it's very hit and miss.

I hate the general attitudes to small furries and how it's not worth seeing a vet for them and so on. It's so horrible. We spent £30 each month on meds for our big boy and his brother who sadly passed away during an op a few weeks ago. We're at the vet at least once a month with one of our 7. The cost is not insignificant. Then all of the hammocks we go through that need replacing, the toys, the fleece and the substrate. It's lucky that we don't have children in this house

We have taken in three rats, two from an MNetter who was rehoming them for legit reasons, they were obviously loved pets but it was clear when we got them that they'd done no research about rats what-so-ever before buying them (unsuitable cage, unsuitable hamster wheel, unsuitable food and no cage embellishments beyond the wheel). The third was taken in from a local who managed to piss off most of the local rat community as she had a sob story every time her rats got too "old" (6+ months) but still replaced them with babies. It took us a short while to piece things together but we got there in the end and I was led to believe that she was blacklisted by our local breeder and others!

I'd love a tortoise or a reptile but I can't take them in knowing that my housing situation will change in a few years time. I hate that rats live for so little time but knowing that does make planning around them much easier, not that my at-least-3yo rescue believes that!

Icebeing I can totally give another vote for rats too, I love them. They need to be in pairs at least for social reasons, though I'll always recommend having at least three just in case of emergencies! Start a thread in small furries and I'll happily come and post page after page of cute rat pictures and videos to sway you even further

tread Tamagotchi's are totally the way forward

Stasie It's awful how pet shops operate, I'll admit that whilst I haven't bought from pet shops, I was awfully close to it the other week when I saw a rat in a pet shop and we'd just lost Haku. Had I not been at work when I was there with my charge it probably would have come home with me despite me knowing how evil they are because I was so worried about my newly lone boy. There's a rat rescue group on FB and people are constantly posting about rats that need to be "rescued" from P@H and the likes, if anybody dares to try explain that they are making the issue worse by buying them they are shot down. I hate seeing small animals in pet shops, especially when they are obviously distressed, but by buying them you create supply, how people don't understand that I don't know

SoundFury I get the obsessed thing a lot, though in my case it's true

Mycar

My photos have my blue Ashitaka, my little Himalayan or Siamese girl Sikozu (she's roughly 10 weeks old) and the tiny baby, unfortunately, is not mine, he will be going to somebody else but he is to die for and almost slipped into my pocket at the rat show I went to on Sunday

I use too get stupid comments about having to get rid of my dog all the time, we got him as a pup in 2010 pre children. 5 years in and nearly 3 children in he's still the best behaved outta the lot of them!. My children are nearly 2 & 4 and I'll soon have a newborn. I own him a lot, in the early new parent stage he saved sanity, forcing me outta bed and into the dog parks. Equally we tried to rehome his poor cousin who went to a family in the same situation, sadly the mother just didn't cope with a dog and young children and I think she'd been left to sit in the back yard with little training, she was very highly strung and a bit crazy as a result, she's now been trained as a security dog and is doing well.

I love this thread!! I hate how people treat their animals, when I was pregnant I was CONSTANTLY asked what I was going to do with our cat. What on earth did people expect I was going to 'do' with him. The same thing I always did, snuggle him!!
I got so tired of one work mate in particular telling me that cats didn't like babies and he might try and kill it that I told her I would get rid of the baby before I rehomed my cat.
He was the best ever when DD did arrive, he put up with her brushing him, pulling him, sitting on him and her first word was his name. Sadly he had to be PTS earlier this year when he developed heart failure, we still talk about him and DD (3.5) often says that she misses him. Pets are the best, but I was not prepared for just how expensive vets can be...

RattieOfCatan Oh god, a big, cheesy, squishy boy! Nom nom! They're gorgeous, and look very much like mine (russian blue, russian blue point). Mine came as babies to keep my lone pet shop boy Bob company. YY to continually replacing the bloody hammocks!

Mycar Yours are gorgeous, they look like squishy ones from that photo Ashi is deceptively big in my photo! He's actually 550g, smaller than his sister He is a runt with health issues and his male litter mates are all over 750/800g! He is very cuddly as he has problems with lethargy and seizures so he's out a lot of the time having cuddles, he has to be kept alone because of it but he thinks he's a little human and gets all defensive around other rats Ashi is supposed to be a British blue but he's darkened quite a bit recently which makes him look more like a Russian blue. In your photo is the one on the left blue but the photo colouring is making him look agouti? Or is that actually a dark and somewhat solid coloured agouti?

Our breeder breeds big rats and I love it Though we're dropping down to one cage gradually and seem to be doing that with girls so it may be a while before I have big squishy boys again. But girls from the big line are prone to a bit of chubbiness too, the first photo is of my three from that breeder, the agouti and black (Aeryn and Zhaan) are older sisters of Ashi and Zhaan is huge, she's such a squishy girl!

The other photo is my original boy, Howl, we believe that he's a result of experimentation of the chinchilla variety, he's lost a lot of his colouring from when he was younger though.

Rattie I sometimes fold the guinea-pigs ears to look like rats ears
Their ears are soft skin like geranium leaves the don't mind (much)

I have considered tails for them but no way to attatch them .

All the things you love about rats - agile, affectionate, intelligent, they are most underated little creatures (though I like my rodents lardy,a bit dim and on the floor level)

And all these people who buy guinea-pigs for children?
My sow bites. All these "guinea pigs don't bite" bollocks.
They are rodents with teeth.
They are shy prey animals.
Mine are all Rescues, my sows had bred before we got them.
My sow is a feisty little thing, I love her to distraction but she's not what I'd call a child's pet.

My mum.was obsessed about our old cat sleeping on/with the baby and smothering him. So much so she gave me a complete paranoia about it. We just never let the cat be alone with ds and never let him in the baby's room. No problem at all!

70 I had a cuddle with a hairless guinea pig the other day and noticed how pliable their ears were! And hairless ones are so weird! I didn't even realise it was a bloody GP! Had to ask And I thought that only hairless rats had that "ugly but cute" thing going for them

Would a little hairclip clip onto the GPs rump fur or is it too short? You could always attach a "tail" onto something like that?

GPs don't generally bite though do they? I assumed that they were like rats in that they bit when scared? Nibbles was like that when we got her, it took months of patience, getting her some babies to mother and her original cagemate dying to get her out of nipping in defence, certainly wouldn't have been suitable for a child to take on after her original home! Hell, Ruby wouldn't have been suitable for a child either, she never nipped at all but that took months of effort to get her to a point of being held for a few minutes, even then it had to be done close to the cage so she could get home.

Hairgrip tail..................................I'll ask them

I was "offered" a Skinny but alas I had to turn it down (entire male skinny and they wanted £££ for it. )

They don't bite as a rule but it's the sellers who say "They never bite" that rile me.

Usually fear , manhandling or smelling food on skin and mistaking my hairy trucker hands for parsley.

Little GP5 is a wriggly little dervish. If I pick her up to pop her in the cage her little legs go flick-flick-flick and she'll give me a toothy gnaw for good measure.

DD is fine with her (she's a teen) but a small child would possibly drop her in horror.

It's just one of her 'things' she's 1000% more settled than when she came to live with us though.

I reckon the hairgrip would work

The guy who owned the skinny pigs was saying that they were extremely expensive, he'd had to seek a specialist breeder for them and pay a lot. He had two at the show, I'm not sure if he had more at home though.

Nibbles has started to nip again recently, only fingers though as she's almost completely blind in her old age so you have to offer her the back of your hand for a sniff and talk to her so she knows that your finger is not actually a yoggie or fruity stick It's no more than a test nip but it can be a shock if you aren't expecting it

It's amazing how time in a better home can calm creatures isn't it? Is a GP gnawing at your hand feel like it would a puppy or kitten playing or more like pinching like a rat does? Out of curiosity :)

I've asked them about the tails. As they'd be decorative not functional, they'd get peed on and they couldn't use them to whip us with.
So they've all declined

She can leave a mark but never broken skin. It's not a prolonged attack by any means (I'd say more like a rat than kitten bite) more a "I can bite you y'know, if I really wanted to"

She's an ex breeding ruby eyed Himalayan crested ( white/brown points/ruby eyes and a little rossette on her forehead) allegedly rare ?

She looks like a Unicorn

One of my GPs was a nervous wreck when we rescued him. He would bite us so badly any time we held him because he was just so frightened. And by bite I mean properly bite, drawing blood etc. That was nearly two years ago now and he's just a different pig, he will sit for cuddles and loves having his ears and head stroked, he doesn't really bite anymore (although we will sometimes if very frightened whilst being cleaned or being blow-dryed but even though it's not as hard as it used to be). He is still shy and a nervous personality, much less confident than his brother, but the transformation has been incredible. He just needed patience and love. His brother has always been really confident though, he's a right character!

Rattie He does look very agouti there doesn't he (love agoutis, they do look like wild rats!). Hopefully you can see the blue a bit better in these. The big white one is Bob, who adopted them when his cage mate (very small runt from pet shop) died after only a few months .

I don't think you can beat a big cuddly boy on a cold night (down the shirt when the fire's not working!!) - though have to admit, had some great girly shoulder rats in the past too! Ashi is gorgeous though, as as they always say, size doesn't matter! .

GP bites are virtually identical to rat bites. I have been bitten by both but never in anger both times it was clumsiness by me that startled them when they were young. My GP give warning gentle nips that scrape the skin if you are doing something they don't like e.g. one GP doesn't like having his front claws clipped much but a cuddle and some parsley normally solves that problem.

My worst experience was when a young rat on my shoulder decided to test if my ear was edible (that bloody hurt).

My rats stick their noses in my ears and sniff away, I struggle not the scare the living crap out of them by not moving, it's incredibly tickley!

rattie what toys do you recommend? I had a wheel (that was suitable) they never used it, I bought a hammock, that was down in 15 minutes so haven't bothered with another one, I had a big wooden stick arch thing but it ended up stinking so I had to throw it, I've bought these loofah/ball/stick toy things and they just hang in the cage untouched. I have various wooden chewy things. I'm out of ideas! They like a kitchen roll tube and I have some soft blankets they sleep on (they have an igloo type house but they tip it upside down then ignore it) but they don't seem to play with anything. I gave one a small plastic ball once, she had it apart in about 5 minutes. I'm at a loss!

we have 4 cats - all rescues (latest one is curled up next to me biting my arm 13 week old unwanted litter)

6 fish (2 tanks generally maintained once a week)

3 guinea pigs - loud, funny smelly and not very cuddly

1 hamster - Mr Fluffles Lord Of The Dark Underworld - he is my very fave - he is amazing and friendly and playful and I love him

CFS Most rats treat a wheel like a glorified toilet Ours do use them for running but it's extremely sporadic and not worth the £20+ for the silent spinner we bought (and the other three wheels we have which were almost as costly)! RE toys/furniture: Hammocks galore, mine usually have at least two in a cage at once, apart from Ashi who won't climb (and therefore won't use them), they "customise" them often though, we go through a lot of them! You don't need to buy "rat hammocks" either, I often go to the cheap shop and buy kids jeans and clothes, once they're washed they're fine to go in the cage whole or in pieces. Old clothes of ours get hung up too.

Ours like wooden things that hang from the top of the cage. we make toys quite a lot, old socks get stuffed with treats and hung up for them to shred. toilet rolls can be turned into little boxes that they have to open. Shelled nuts are great, they can take a couple of days to crack one but they enjoy it. Box forts make free ranging a bit more interesting. Rope toys are fun. Ikea have these necklace/scarf hangers which we put in the cage horizontally but they'd be fine vertically too. Wooden wine racks are great. Boxes are brilliant, small ones, big ones, they love them. Ashi and Howl particularly like the boxes that whiskers pouches come in. Sputniks are awesome, ours all prefer them to hang but you have to keep an eye on the plastic as they like chewing it. We drilled holes into ours to stop wee puddles too. Pipes and carpet roll tubes are brilliant tubes, better than "proper" rat and ferret tubes.

Anything wood that's climbable or on the floor will end up covered in pee and needing to be binned, depends on the rats as to how long it lasts though! We buy wooden things occasionally but not often.

These sites are good:
www.dapper.com.au/toys.htm
www.ratsauce.com/rat-toys-and-games
www.rattycorner.com/funstuff/toys.shtml
www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?39503-Toys-and-Fun-Ideas-for-Rats

Thanks! Loads of great ideas there.

Mine love to use yoghurt lids for their nest! We give them the lid to lick then Molly will pull it out of your fingers and line her bed with it before you can take it away. Really makes us laugh.