To act as if I know the difference between irony and coincidence

[Timri]

When I don't really?
I kind of get it, then I get confused.
There can be an overlap, can't there?
Is it all down to expectation? So how can you know if something is truly ironic without actually being in someones head, thereby knowing exactly what their intentions are, rather than just going by what you assume their intentions/expectations are?
Am I even making sense?

You've confused me!... But I have had 3 glasses of port and am ready for bed!

I know the difference between the 2, but can't explain right now!

Egosumquisum

I have always loved the fact that the song is not about irony. I heard it again the other day and did smile

Irony: you posted in AIBU but your actual name is Mrs Unreasonable. Coincidence: your neighbour is called Mrs Unreasonable. Irony: she works at a think tank for reasonableness. Coincidence: so do you!

Irony: you posted in AIBU but your actual name is Mrs Unreasonable

But isn't that just a coincidence

And I thought Mr Play-it-safe was the only actual ironic thing in that song?
He was afraid of flying, finally getting over his fear, getting on the plane with the full expectation of it not crashing, and then it does?
All these flipping pedants and the Grammar Police swishing about uninvited all the time, and the one time I need them, are they anywhere to be seen? No.

An example of irony would be a person gossiping with you, telling you about someone else who is 'such a gossip'.

You can have an ironic coincidence.

When mr play it safe says 'isn't that nice' during a plane crash he's being ironic. (Like saying 'lovely weather, eh?' when its pissing it down). Nothing else in that song is ironic.

Arf That example is a coincidence as well isn't it? A wonderfully ironic coincidence?
Although irony is really not dependent on coincidence, in the example you gave, the plane crashing into the car happens independently of him being scared of plane crashes?
Am I right?

Whatever I thought that was sarcasm?
So all sarcasm is irony, but not all irony is sarcasm?
Or is sarcasm just malicious irony, and saying 'isn't that nice' not sarcastic at all.

Probably a bit too pedantic; but it's late and I've been drinking some nice wine ...

Fowler's 'Modern English Usage' says this: 'Irony is a form of utterance that postulates a double audience, consisting of one party that hearing shall hear and not understand, and another party that, when more is meant than meets the ear, is aware both of that more and of the outsiders' incomprehension.'

That's about right, imo. I like how it's put, too, and hope others might as well. Fowler is still a treat after all these years.

Note also, 'For practical purposes a protest is needed against the application of 'the irony of fate' or of 'irony' for short, to every trivial oddity ...' I suspect Fowler would subsume the coincidences offered above under 'trivial oddities'.

I think it would be a shame if we lost the 'double audience' notion, so I tend to agree with the need for a protest. Quite right, Arfarfanarf, nothing to do with coincidence!

(Though, of course, language is alive and meanings change over time.)

That Alanis Morrisette song annoys me so much.

Rain on your wedding day is just bad luck.

A free ride when you've already paid is simply not a free ride.

The good advice that you just didn't take is poor judgment on your part.

I always thought Alannis was singing about a death row hard on

Not sure if that's ironic either though..

Grey is that dramatic irony?

Arf Yes! One point!

In plays and films you can have dramatic irony when the audience know things the characters don't. In Romeo and Juliet when Romeo finds Juliet apparently dead and therefore decides to kill himself that's ironic because the audience know she's not really dead and can see that Romeo's lack of awareness of this is leading him to make a very wrong decision.