To act as if I know the difference between irony and coincidence

[Timri]

When I don't really?
I kind of get it, then I get confused.
There can be an overlap, can't there?
Is it all down to expectation? So how can you know if something is truly ironic without actually being in someones head, thereby knowing exactly what their intentions are, rather than just going by what you assume their intentions/expectations are?
Am I even making sense?

Incredible But ignoring good advice because you think you know better, the. Finding out you don't know better is ironic, no?

Timri now I'm confused!

I see what you mean but somehow not taking advice just doesn't feel like irony. Ignoring good advice to your detriment is surely hubris, a dangerous pride, rather than irony?

Coincidences certainly can be ironic! And I think people are a bit snobby about that Alanis Morrissette song. Admittedly I don't see how rain on your wedding day could be construed as ironic, but imo a death row pardon two minutes too late/10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife(!) can easily be described as ironic.

Ironic arrogance?

Blackadder: "have you no idea what 'irony' is?"

Baldrick: "Yes, it's like 'goldy' and 'bronzy', only made out of iron"

I remember my son and his friends laughing/sneering about the 10,000 spoons bit. Good times!

A coincidence is bumping into your next-door neighbour on holiday. Or singing a song to yourself and then it being on the radio as you get into the car.

Irony is defined as: "difference between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result" - you had an expectation of the result and the opposite happened

Coincidence is defined as: "the occurrence of events that happen at the same time by accident but seem to have some connection" - events to which you had no expectation/s

So, examples to check out:

1. a man makes his living examining air bags in a factory to make sure that they are in working order, but dies in a car wreck because he failed to check his own airbag. - irony (opposite of what you would expect)

1. seeing a friend in another town you both happen to be visiting at the same time - coincidence. This would be ironic if you deliberately went somewhere to avoid that particular person and they were there anyway (you had an expectation that wasn't met)

1. you are thinking of your husband and decide to call him. You pick up the phone to call him but he is trying to call you at the same time. - coincidence

1. You friend falls. You laugh at him. And then you fall. - coincidence (you had no expectations about whether you would fall or not)

1. Your friend’s father is a gardener, but all of the plants at your friend’s house are dying. - irony

1. A chili farmer hates spicy food - irony

1. A man named “Art” is an artist - coincidence

~~ In short, ask yourself whether you had an expectation of the result. If there was no expectation, it's a coincidence; if you had an expectation and the opposite happened, then it's ironic.

Isn't number 6 coincidence? Where is the expectation?

But at least I know I'm not the only one who doesn't actually get it...
Have also decided my earlier example re: the pedants was irony.
I expected them to come flocking to my aid (as they're always everywhere bloody else) and then they didn't therefore opposite of expectation, therefore IRONY!!

6. A chili farmer hates spicy food - irony

It is irony because it's not what you would expect. You would expect him to like it as that is his entire job.

It's not coincidence because two similar things are not coinciding. If his long lost twin also turned out to be a chili farmer then that would be a coincidence.

But why would you expect him to like chilli because he works as a chilli farmer?
If his job was as a chilli advisor Or something then that would make sense to me as being ironic.
By by virtue of just farming chilli, I wouldn't necessarily expect him to like it? To me they are seperate things that are coinciding?
Like if I delivered DVDs but didn't like watching them, to me that would be coincidence, but if I reviewed DVDs but didn't like watching them, then it would be ironic?

Ok, so if two people have different perceptions of one event or situation, can it be ironic for one person and not for the other? Chilli farmer as example. Me, personally, I wouldn't expect him to like chilli just because he works as a chilli farmer. I would see it as a (funny) coincidence. So if you would expect him to like chilli, does that make it ironic for you and not for me?
Does irony essentially lie in the eye of the beholder?
Does irony even exist?

There are three kinds.

1. The opposite of the true meaning is said to be the case. how lovely when it clearly isn't. This is sometimes said sarcastically. Sarcasm is a tone of voice.

1. Dramatic irony is when the audience know more than the characters. We know Iago is lying but Othello trusts him. We know Juliet is still alive but Romeo doesn't.

1. Situational irony is when the opposite outcome to our expectation occurs. So we would expect the man who was afraid of flying to be safe driving to his destination but the plane crashing on his car would be ironic. This can sometimes also be a coincidence.

I guess I always think that true irony has to have some kind of heft to it -- like Oedipus leaving Corinth to try to avoid the prophecy that he would kill his father and marry his mother and, in so doing, walked right into fulfilling it. Well, maybe not always THAT heavy!

Above referring to situational irony, of course.

Jodi Picout uses irony in My Sister's Keeper. Anna, throughout the whole book, is fighting to prevent donation of her kidney to her sister because of the impact it will have on her life. She wins, so no transplant is made. But then she dies in a car crash and the result is that her kidney is donated to her sister.

That's situational irony.

Sykadelic's list is pretty good - irony has multiple meanings, so it's not easy to explain.

Dave Eggers does a brilliant job of giving all the definitions of irony at the end of his book A heartbreaking work of staggering genius. That will tell you all you need to know!

Rain on your wedding day could be ironic if you had changed the date to that day specifically to avoid rain. Particularly so if the day you had avoided was dry.

Great song though

Victoria Coren tells a story of how she was receiving counselling for her fear of flying, and was doing really well until her counsellor was killed in a flying accident. I guess you'd call that ironic.

Ha! I spent rather tooling in my teenage years trying to do that (with no success)

This thread had me singing in the shower
'It's like ray-ee-ay-ain' etc

Too long!