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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Religious discrimination grievance? AIBU

87 replies

Namechangedforthisdrama1 · 04/12/2015 10:22

So a colleague of mine is a lovely woman, we often go out for lunch together and are very close. she is however, very very religious and pushy of her religion, I had my dd out of wedlock and she continued to tell me throughout my pregnancy that I must get married and the baby will grow up with no morals ect..

Anyway the other day we were discussing her marriage, she had an arranged marriage which meant that She had to give up uni (years into a medicine degree) to bring her husband to the UK and and then had To work at a part time job at my work, she always talks about this but says it's her path to take ect.

She has lost 12 babies and I have been there for her throughout, she has openly admitted it's due to 'genetic' issues as her husband is her first cousin, I went to see her when her son tragically passed a few months ago in hospital and she was destroyed, but her husband has forced her to keep tying (she gets pregnant usually a month after mc)

I was talking to her about this but she has told me that in her religion you must have many children or you are a failure, I said to her that it was not her fault - and not her fault that she has been made to be with a first cousin and have children with him.

She then told me about her sister who has been getting abused by her husband for 20 years, I asked her why her sister hadn't left this man, she was horrified at the idea and said you can't leave a marriage that is terrible why would I suggest this etc..

Then I asked what her parents thought of this, she said 'they are trying to keep the peace and they can't let her leave him as they would be looked down on by the community' she said this was the plan for her sister and she had to deal with it as that was the man that had been chosen for her.

This made me angry, I have been in an abusive relationship and when my dad found out I'm pretty sure he wanted to kill the man. I also thought of my daughter being forced to put up with an abuser from the age of 17 scared I would disown her if She left.

I told her that her parents were idiots if they thought that and if that's what there religion is about then in my opinion, I can't see why anyone would want to be a part of it. I said that to watch her sister be abused for 20 years is horrendous and her parents should be protecting her above there 'rules'

Anyway I have since found out that she has put a complaint in against me to HR and said I discriminated against her and her religion.
We have since continued at lunch and being friends and I am shocked to find out she has done this.

So WIBU? I have no issue against her religion, just against what was going on. I don't know what to say to her or to HR.

OP posts:

Original poster

Namechangedforthisdrama1 · 04/12/2015 11:36

Thanks for replies, the conversation was in the lunch room at work. I've just always shrugged off her things and said 'we'll that's your opinion' she's said many things to me but I've always seen her as needig someone so I've tried to be there as much as possible.
I probably shouldn't have said 'your parents are idiots' but we often have conversations about stuff like this and she knows I've had a relationship like that before, and it just hit a nerve.
Thank you for replies, I will write out notes for meeting

OP posts:

Ohbehave1 · 04/12/2015 11:40

Akkerdemik. Is the OP not allowed her point of view ( which I must admit I agree with) that the parents are idiots for allowing their religion to get in the way of safeguarding their own daughter?

As I said, to take offence at that shows a reluctance to see the truth for what it is.

Sadly, that's religion for you ( in some cases)

TomHaverford · 04/12/2015 11:44

I dont think you can be accused of discriminating against her religion, you only expressed your opinion about her circumstances as she had previously done about yours.

Religion has nothing to do with it, culture maybe.

And regarding pps about not being able to be close with someone strongly religious, i would disagree. I see myself as quite strongly religious and almost all my friends are not.

As a side not in my job I see many children affected by consanguineous relationships and it is a tragedy for all involved.

howtorebuild · 04/12/2015 11:47

Seriously we don't want medical professionals with any of the attitudes the op has described, in a position of trust, power and control.

Daisysbear · 04/12/2015 11:47

She can't be accused of discriminating against anything because discriminating means treating someone unequally, not expressing your view on some aspect of their culture or religion.

I cannot believe HR are even entertaining her complaint.

lorelei9 · 04/12/2015 11:48

oh dear
I'm really sorry to hear this has happened to you
I think I'd probably go along the route that what she said was emotionally triggering for you
be prepared to apologise if you'd rather avoid it going further - is it possible she's trying it on to get a financial reward, I'm not sure how these things work?

Also, just a note - I don't really have any religious or political chats at work, it's just too easy for things to go wrong, so I'd take that approach in future if I were you.

Viviennemary · 04/12/2015 11:49

Put in a counter claim against her. She discriminated against you for having a child out of wedlock. I agree this woman is not your friend. She sounds dangerous.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 04/12/2015 11:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mide7 · 04/12/2015 11:54

I don't think she can claim discrimation either but could claim bullying.... I think

paintandbrush · 04/12/2015 11:56

Offending someone is not the same as discriminating against them. Write a letter to HR explaining the situation... if she's really bent on revenge, you might want a solicitor to handle any letter-writing. Difficult one, this.

goodnightdarthvader1 · 04/12/2015 11:57

Bullying! What has the OP done that's bullying?

Make sure you say what she said about your children. That's far more offensive.

Mide7 · 04/12/2015 12:01

I'm not saying she had bullied anyone but I wonder if Op's "friend" has taken her difference of opinion as something more.

OnlyLovers · 04/12/2015 12:06

She can't be accused of discriminating against anything because discriminating means treating someone unequally, not expressing your view on some aspect of their culture or religion.

I agree with this. I'd counter with a bullying claim or something; she's pushed her religious beliefs on to you and told you you 'must get married' and your child will grow up with no morals.

But actually, I don't know why you ever remained 'friends' with someone who would speak to you like that.

DeoGratias · 04/12/2015 12:08

You might want to speak to your union rep or a solicitor just to be on the safe side.

Her parents are indeed idiots as is much of that appalling culture (which was also British culture by the way until the 1960s when girls having babies out of wed lock were often rejected in the UK by their parents) but it tends to be best not to say so at work.

I don't think this could be taken as bullying although people get caught out for all kinds of inoccuous comments at work or even just a screen saver on their PC that someone else doesn't like.

MagicalMrsMistoffelees · 04/12/2015 12:08

Why can't people just make up their own mind about what is moral, right and just without blindly following what a particular society or religion has always done?

Perhaps then people won't think a child is damned because they're born out of wedlock.

Or prefer their daughter suffers domestic abuse because 'society' will be outraged that she has left a marriage.

Or think it's acceptable for a woman to give up her education / career in deference to her husband.

I don't know which culture / religion this is. It doesn't matter. I would just love people to be objective, measured, logical, compassionate and reasoned in their opinions and views and develop their own moral code.

In the meantime OP make notes prior to the meeting about conversations you've had with her. Remain calm and reasonable in the meeting. And stay away from this woman!

FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 04/12/2015 12:10

Sorry no advice OP it sounds horrific.

And this is just one of the reasons why I cannot abide religion.

HermioneWeasley · 04/12/2015 12:11

From my reading of the OP you have been critical of her religion (and the revolting misoygny that springs from it). This could be classed as a detriment under the Equality Act. however it sounds like you have known each other a long time, she has been just as offensive about your lifestyle (this is relevant - points to a relationship where you thought you could openly exchange views) and it's not unreasonable to be appalled that the family are enabling domestic abuse.

I would set this out calmly and rationally - that you apologise for any offence caused, but given the history and her previous comments to you, you had no reason to think this would cause offence. You are prepared to apologise to her if she extends the same courtesy to you, and you will keep all conversations strictly work related from now on.

This is the problem with religion/belief being covered by the equality Act - you can't choose your race, sex , disability etc, but belief in palpable nonsense, which can be prevented by education, receives the same level of protection. Tis bollox.

tiredandhungryalways · 04/12/2015 12:15

Yanbu she is a major twat and completely talking shit she is massively confused with religion and her shitty culture that condones such fucked up lifestyles.

howtorebuild · 04/12/2015 12:17

Hermione, I guess it's there in reaction to past genocide events.

I don't follow organised religion anymore, it's abused by weirdos who warp it.

Booyaka · 04/12/2015 12:39

Atheism is also protected by law (if that's what you are). You could equally put in a complaint about her comments to you re marriage and children out of wedlock having no morals.

If it was me I would do.

I wouldn't have said what you did, but I think that she is in the wrong here because she has spoken to you several times very frankly about her own moral opinions on your personal life. She encouraged this sort of atmosphere then didn't like it when it was reciprocated. She's a dick.

cosytoaster · 04/12/2015 12:44

Offending someone is not the same as discriminating against them

This. Also complaining of someone's unwelcome opinions whilst being so free giving your own is ridiculous. She's not and never was your friend.

chillycurtains · 04/12/2015 12:47

Before worrying I would just wait to hear what HR has to say. They have an obligation to investigate anything that is reported to them. The meeting will give you an opportunity to discuss what was said between you both.

I think you have been skating on thin ice, as has she, for a long time with your discussions. You need to be really careful to not talk about family and religion again. If this means that your friendship is over then that is really sadly the case. I understand your frustrations with her religious lifestyle but losing your own job will not help her in any way. She has made her choices in life. If she decides to leave her husband and family then I am sure she would be in contact with you as she knows your opinions.

dontcallmecis · 04/12/2015 12:49

I'm an hr manager.

I'd suggest the two of you simply avoid such emotive topics of it's going to lead to such upset. You had a difference of opinion. It got heated. Nothing more, or less.

Not everything needs to be an 'Issue' that needs to be 'Resolved'.

I certainly wouldn't be demanding any apologies.

lorelei9 · 04/12/2015 12:57

dontcallmecis - so as an HR manager, you wouldn't be concerned about the complaint?

I keep schtum on so many things because I'm really nervous I'll blurt out something that someone finds offensive. I even worry if I say "oh god" in a moment of irritation.

KakiFruit · 04/12/2015 12:59

So you've "heard" that she complained to HR. Have you been invited to any meeting about a potential disciplinary? Have you been asked to state your case? If not, stop worrying. If you have, take someone with you to any meeting (preferably a union rep) and tell them the facts, calmly.

And yes, stop being friends with her.

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