To think a lot of people don't understand adoption

[Kettlesingsatnight]

Based on a comment on another thread.

Adoption is not looking after a child for a few years as the birth parents can't.

It isn't fostering.

It isn't easy and it isn't straightforward. You can't rock up to an agency and announce your intention to adopt and get approved just like that.

AIBU to think some comment just are too much? I realise some are made in ignorance not to be mean but I just don't see that as an excuse any more. I'm fed up of it!

FFS I am an adoptive parent. Would you rather I put - 'There is a theory that we are biologically adapted to respond to the poo of our biological children'

This is what I mean by misconstruing what people mean.

Actually, yes, I would.

MrsFrisby, I don't agree. I don't think it's adoptive parents' job to educate the general public 24/7, or to have to make the mental effort of trying to see past crass or intrusive questions to the nugget of good intentions they might contain under the appearance of stupidity or plain nosiness, if they do.

Or do you think that BigSandy's colleague was in fact only appearing to make a stupid and insensitive comment, that it is in fact BigSandy's own 'insecurity' about having been adopted 47 years ago by a woman she clearly loves that makes her think that it is, in fact, an incredibly crass thing to say?

And is sarah supposed to put aside the implication that her child is not 'her own' and think about scientific research on biology and disgust, because that's what the person must have meant? Rather than simply saying something stupid to a very new adoptive parent?

So we are beginning to see that 'adoption' as a word is pretty wide ranging in its semiotics. What being a adoptive parent is to one person, is different to what it means to another. So there is not one perfect set of language that we can use with everyone.

Ok - so if someone has 2 children. One adoptive and one biological - and you ask 'Did your biological child's poo smell different' - would you (you in the generic here) be offended that someone has made a differential between 'your children'. It depends on the context.

Language as you have pointed out is very powerful - but communication breaks down when we don't take into consideration how own own experiences influence our reactions to particular words.

I find your views refreshing and reassuring mrs frisby!

CastaDiva - I think we do need to take a responsibility to 'educate' people about things they have no concept of. I don't mean by giving them a lecture or a handout, but by continuing to have conversations with people.

BigSandy's colleague was way out of order. But I would choose to challenge that in my response.

Education can be as simple as challenging misconception.

oh - and this thread is wonderful. There are many many very thoughtful and explanatory posts sharing different experiences and viewpoints. Maybe it will go a long way to 'educating'. I, for one, have been challenged to think about things differently.

As an adopted person I think it's easier to be generous about sloppy language, not sure I would be so sanguine if it was my child being asked where her 'real' mother was. I have had my share of odd questions and experiences, in my paternal grandparents house I was referred to as 'the foundling' for a good while!
Anyway what I find really astonishing, and especially in these times when there are so many ways families can be formed, are those who have the right language but who really believe that my experience of family isn't as powerful or unconditionally loving as their biological parents gave them. One friend returns to this theme occassionally whilst trying to explain how blood matters so much. I have no problem with individuals who know they couldn't love a non biological but to presume all are incapable of letting love flourish shows a real lack of appreciation of the history of humanity.

MrsFrisby, I agree with you to an extent. In fact, I started my first post on this thread by saying: I don't expect everyone to understand all about adoption. I didn't, before I became an adopter. I hate it when people react with prissy, precious shock if someone doesn't know the 'correct' way to talk about minority experiences.

But I think it's valid to feel pissed off when people ask questions that they would be outraged by if asked of themselves, when people ask intrusive upsetting questions to or in front of children, when people ask questions in order to assert their own opinions rather than to learn, and when people don't stop to think before trampling on others' feelings.

I'm generally an open person - probably too open - but I've had to teach my children (as well as myself) that just because somebody asks doesn't mean we have to answer. I've had to do this because of the staggering insensitivity we have encountered, again and again, by total or near strangers demanding details of my child's birth heritage right in front of her.

Devora I totally understand what you are saying. You and your children shouldn't be objected to intrusive or upsetting questions. And I'm not for one moment suggesting you give such people chapter and verse on your life. I think what I'm getting at (and what you allude to) is that you can choose how to respond to it. But I think that choice is educative in itself.

This is true of so much. My youngest child (4) has a severe speech and language disorder. Because he doesn't talk much people seem to assume he can't hear as well - and will talk about him in front of him. 'Oh - he doesn't talk then.... etc etc) It used to infuriate me that people could be so insensitive. And consequently I would be pretty abrasive in my responses to them. I realised this wasn't healthy for me (or him) and have had to work hard to reframe my responses and develop a vocabulary/stock phrases to try and help them to understand the situation.

it would be a wonderful world if we could all go around being perfect communicators and always being empathetic to the needs of others - but most of us are far from perfect. I think I'd rather assume that most people are just not engaging brain before mouth - then that they are being deliberately hurtful.

Well, I certainly agree that 90% of the time, you catch more bees with honey. And that most people are very reasonable once they understand, so promoting understanding is a good default position

In the last two years since my two DDs came home, I've been relatively lucky in terms of insensitive questions I think. And if anyone assumes I don't love my children as much as I would genetically related ones, they've never said!

BTW the poo question - one of my kids loves vegetables, the others lives carbs. My experience of their poo is very different. But I don't let it show on my face!

The poo is not showing on my face. That sounded so wrong.

We did IVF abroad and weren't asked to do any of those things the pp above listed. There were logistical issues due to distance and a different healthcare system and language, but it was still much more straightforward, and quicker, than adoption (we had got as far as a preparation course before being told we weren't suitable). I can well believe people say thoughtless and intrusive stuff to adopters, as I received some memorably odd comments myself while going through these experiences. The friend's DH who asked if we'd considered surrogacy, during a birthday dinner, being one of them! I talk to people about IVF as they are often ignorant about that too.

Jamais

I'm always puzzled by the biology thing - after all, I am not biologically related to my husband, and yet I love him as much as I do my mum and sister...

And I love my daughter - who is not mine by birth - as much as I could love anyone.

The thing I am finding difficult at the moment online (because of the Planned Parenthood shooting) is the blindly pro-adoption lobby in the US as in the ones who are anti-abortion and feel adoption should always be the solution, seem to believe it always turns out perfectly and is sugar coated rainbows and happiness.

I've even seen people comment to a mum who is struggling that perhaps she should consider having her child adopted. You know, like it's a dog which won't stop shitting on the carpet. It stuns me. The whole attitude is so alien to me. Yet adoption is so common there that you can't say anything to even slightly temper this or suggest that adoption isn't always a perfect solution without being shouted down and/or risking offending somebody who has either been adopted themselves or given up a baby, and I wouldn't - I don't think it's fair to make somebody question a decision they have put so much faith into, and probably broken their heart over too.

I don't have personal experience of adoption, but I'm always interested in the brilliant and informative (and sometimes heartbreaking) posts on the topic by MNers. It's definitely made me open my eyes and in some cases read and learn more.

Bertie, I'm reading a really interesting book at the moment called 'The Child Catchers', about the evangelical adoption movement in the US. I had no idea it was such a big thing. The evangelical churches have basically claimed adoption as a divine covenant - it's a perfect blend of having a new tactic in the anti-abortion fight, a way of 'doing good' in poor countries, and a way of evangelising/bringing new people into the church. Because they see adoption as basically god's commandment, that inevitably makes them impatient with any principles and processes that get in the way. The result is horrendous situations like that in Haiti after the earthquake, where the US relief effort was basically diverted to airlifting out children, without proper checks that they actually were orphans and available for adoption.

Of course, this creates a demand for supply and thence corruption and horrendous exploitation of birth mothers.

A close friend and her DH adopted an18m old from China .She is now 18 and is a happy, well adjusted bright child who has just gone off to
University
The early days were difficult and she was initially developmentally delayed ,but otherwise I don't think she has been any more challenging to bring up than than the two DDs to whom I gave birth have been .

I have had lots of discussions with my friend about adopting and whether it is 'different' and in this instance at least I don't think it has been .

So many posts about understanding adoption - I hope you don't mind an addition from a birth parent.
In terms of today's 'lepers' - unseen and uncared for, I think birth parents are up there. So many people think they know my story better than I do "there must be more to it than that"; "they don't refer to SS just because you ask for help"; "I would never give up on my children".

I am now in recovery from alcoholism - in fact I was long before my daughter was placed, 15 months by the final hearing.
GPs do refer when you ask for help.
Family testifying against you can be a powerful thing.
I was pushed into agreeing with Social Services that my daughter would be better off without me. Don't most people with significant depression think this? And if you are sat in a room with a social worker and told to share those doubts, to admit it, that you are not a good enough parent for your daughter....

And by the final hearing she was with people who she'd been told were her "new mummy and daddy". I would have added further trauma to contest it - and was in fact encouraged not to attend as "it's optional" by the social worker.

I would love to start to build support for birth parents - the conspiracy theories abound and are so damaging, and only 38% go on to have another child - there's such a wealth of unhappiness, addiction, poor mental health... every time I write to DD, I write to Children's services about it. Every time it's ignored. So many here know someone who is an adoptive parent or foster carer. Few have mentioned knowing someone who is a 'birth parent'. Why is that, do you think?

Off to name change again as I've shared far too much. I try to educate a bit too. Always good to read Devora's insights.

iPaid, you won't know whether your dd has any difficulties relating to adoption until she is an adult, or indeed has children of her own

Even if she does, that's just the reality of the situation. She was adopted. She'll learn to cope with that. Coming to terms with the hand you've been dealt is just part of the human condition regardless of your life circumstance. It doesn't mean adoption is better or worse than having biological children.

There's plenty of adopted kids out there that turn out just fine with no problems around it. There's plenty that don't. You know what though? There's plenty of parents that fuck up their biological children too, it's not just an adoption thing.

It's been interesting to read this. As I said I don't know much about adoption, but I know it can't be easy for anyone involved. The closest I have been to it is my mums cousin.
She was a foster carer and she ended up with a 9 month old baby. He stayed for a while and she really bonded with him so she decided to adopt him. All I know is that after a long and very difficult process, just before all the papers were signed, his birth mum decided she wanted him after all

It broke my mums cousins heart and she never fostered again after that as she didn't want to risk loving another child like she did this baby.
I was very young so that's all I remember from conversations I overheard.

I also had a woman recently who after having an argument with her partner told me that "well if he thinks he's having this baby he can piss off"
Me: what?
Her: well I don't want it if it looks like him
Me:
Her: I'm probably going to put it up for adoption. My kids are cute so it shouldnt be too difficult.
Me: you're a dick.

She's back with her partner now and all lovey dovey, so she's decided she doesn't want to have the baby adopted after all.

That really annoyed me. So how people who have actually been in that situation, from either side, must feel is unthinkable. I can understand the anger and frustration when dealing with fuckwits like that.

A close friend and her DH adopted an18m old from China .She is now 18 and is a happy, well adjusted bright child who has just gone off to University

And that's just the beginning of her life. Think of yourself at 18 and how your outlook and your insecurities have changed. How you have settled into relationships, or had angst over them. 18 is not fully-formed...

Some of the adoptees that are open about this kind of stuff, and are older, say that they struggled in young adulthood with the fact that their first relationship, with their birth mother, was someone who rejected them, so they tend to believe that everyone else will too (especially partners).

Gosh what a thread. I was adopted in the eighties - I was one of those blue eyed, blonde babies who went straight to foster at birth and then, six weeks later I was placed with my parents and legally adopted the following year. It WAS a stringent, invasive process back then - some of the questions mum and dad and their friends were asked were ridiculous.

My parents are my real parents. They're all I've ever known and they're amazing. I've had the best life and I do count myself lucky actually, because I know I wouldn't be who I am without them. The woman who gave birth to me did so to give me these opportunities. She was young and not in a position to care for a child. I feel absolutely nothing towards her - a mild curiousity in my late teens which led to me obtaining my adoption file, but nothing bar that. No malice, no desire...Just nothing. I have no gap to fill. Was the fact I was a vile teenager for a couple of years down to my adoption? It's not possible to say one way or the other.

I feel sorry for adoptive parents these days because my perception is that they have to try and maintain links with the birth family of the child...I wonder if this means the 'break' is never complete for the child or the families. It's not something I would have wanted. I understand the reasons why but I wonder if it causes its own problems. Not seeking to offend, just wondering because my own identity is so rooted in my upbringing and not my biology.