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Original poster

To think air strikes on Syria will be the biggest political mistake of Cameron's life.

88 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 02/12/2015 12:23

If you could tell me that no civilians would be hurt/killed and we would stop Daesh then I'd get in a plane myself (well i wouldn't but you know what i mean). Id be behind it 100%

Neither of those things are going to happen.

More innocent people are going to die.

Not just in Syria - lets face it, we are painting a fucking great target on the UK by doing this is. A bigger one than there already is.

There has to be a more intelligent way of doing this, we have intelligence don't we? we have drones? we have troops? Loathe as i am to send our troops in on the ground, it is fairer surely? Civilian casualties can be managed? Bombing is indescriminate and well, i doubt that any leading ISIS figures are in Raqqa just now.

It is futility in its greatest form and going to help no-one.

OP posts:
ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:31

Pausing is that exasperated response to me?

I understand that the danger may increase but as long as the caliphate grows the danger increases as people here will thinks its successful. And worth killing and fighting for.

I am not talking about bringing ISIS round the table, You cant really talk them out of the Apolocypse.. other players in the problem, ie putting pressure on Russia to stop backing Assad. How to get rid of Assad.

I get the feeling there is suspicion of Russia just like Putin is bringing more weapons into Syria, the UN want to get forces into Syria.

Drew64 · 02/12/2015 15:34

I have already quoted one VERY good reason for joining in the coalition for airstrikes in Syria against ISIS.

A UN resolution that calls for all member states to do everything they can.
Doing nothing is NOT what the resolution calls for.

So, back to those that don't agree. If not airstrikes then what!
Come on, what else do you suggest?

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:39

we are already bombing ISIS a mile away !

I think and feel there is an un said understanding that our planes are not going to help much probably ease financial burdern on the others?

I think its more of a PR message, to Putin/Assad and ISIS.

NewLife4Me · 02/12/2015 15:41

Elf

We get the message Grin

DirtyBlonde · 02/12/2015 15:41

I found this piece by Dan Jarvis (Labour MP, Barnsley; ex-Para, served in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan) to be worth a read.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/23/five-tests-military-action-syria-david-cameron-islamic-state

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 15:44
Blush

oh denot sure whats going o

PausingFlatly · 02/12/2015 15:45

Yes.

And what do you think is growing the caliphate? Bombing Syria won't stop the funding flowing to ISIS and won't stop the recruitment of people buying into the jihadi dream.

And as the latter has a powerful push from the " Sunnis Muslims as victims of the cruel West" narrative, bombing may make things worse. (For the UK, I mean. Not just for those under the bombs.)

The British army itself recognised that, by the end of the Troubles, a bored soldier on checkpoint duty was the IRA's best recruiting-sergeant. It's not a new phenomenon.

PausingFlatly · 02/12/2015 15:49

That's a good article, DirtyBlonde.

It's precisely Cameron's failure to do the other things Jarvis lists that makes "token" Hmm airstrikes likely to do more harm than good.

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 02/12/2015 15:56

YANBU to think it will be a massive mistake to extend the bombing, in that it will not solve the problem it purports to address but will kill and destroy the lives of many people, will simply escalate the violence, and will perpetuate the devastating, asset-driven, war-mongering cycles espoused by those in power for their own gain.

But YABU to think Cameron will suffer much for it. Look at Blair's life now.

Pangurban1 · 02/12/2015 16:01

Drew, that resolution falls short of a resolution on military action. It does not invoke Chapter VII of the UN charter which can be used to authorise military action in order to restore peace and security.

Cameron tries to pass it off as one by saying it was 'like' a like Chapter VII resolution. That is not the same as a Chapter VII resolution.

It is not that straightforward.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 16:41

And what do you think is growing the caliphate?

Er many factors but its continuing success is the main draw.

ComposHatComesBack · 02/12/2015 16:42

And suppose they manage to drive ISIS out of Syria, what's the plan after that? Let that nice Mr Assad get on with things, or will the non-existent 70,000 moderate fighters rise up. There is literally no way of knowing what the outcome of this intervention will be.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 02/12/2015 16:46

No there isnt compos. There is never any way of knowing is there.

How do you propose to get rid of Assad. I think the talks in Vienna are discussing how to do that.