to think some people have no idea of how some people live?

[ihatevirginmobile]

Being vague cos I like the person and I don't want to out myself or them but it did make me think they have no idea...
We were talking about paying for an activity for children - a charity run by volunteers and the 'fees' are deliberately kept as low as possible to be inclusive. Can be paid monthly (so small amounts) or four times a year - which works out at max £25 - but actual amounts vary for various reasons. Payment can be made by internet banking, cash or cheq.
Person I was talking to was complaining about having to make the payments (by bank transfer -takes a few minutes) - it would be better just to make it quarterly payments of the same amount so they could set up a standing order. And to make it more rather than less so the charity didn't miss out - they would happily pay £10-15 more a year for the convenience....their time was worth more than that...
They are employed in a public service role that is relatively well paid and we do live in a relatively affluent area - I would agree that most people would be fine with it - could easily afford it...(I could but have struggled in the past)
But I also know from something else that we do have the odd person who is less comfortable and struggling - and £10-15 a year for some people is a lot...it is a couple of hours work at NMW.
So AIBU to feel a bit cross ... and .. I don't know - sad? despairing? ... that people can exist in a bubble and have no idea how difficult things can be for some people...or maybe I'm wrong and isn't really a lot of money so maybe they have a point...

Tobys what do you mean by "the poor can be naive"? It's a very sweeping statement.

My friend struggles financially - it's tricky sometimes, I try not to but I worry that I make insensitive comments sometimes without thinking, I have had times in my life where I had no money and an extra £10-£15 did make a difference, it can't be hard to see that it does but sometimes it's hard to remember when it's not your reality.

Dodo - that's just teenagers, trust me!

Doesn't research show that most people think they are a bit above average for income? Even high earners tend to underestimate the gap between them and the norm.
Polly Toynbee did some research for one of her books and found bankers earning £200k thought they made maybe double the average. When told that average wage was about £26k they couldn't imagine people living on it.
But I don't think ignorance is a defence, these are well educated people who pay enough attention to the finance pages. They just aren't interested enough in others to think about their lives.

thehouse yes well clearly I did in fact work it out - I was just puzzled by it the first few times I saw it. A child can do calculus if they have had experience of it....a lot of people on here can't.

You can be happy to pay more because it is more convenient and understand that other people can't or don't want to do this. For some people time is a bigger issue than money. We are sometimes in that category.

If it was monthly, then yanbu. But if a person can't afford 40p a week, surely they can't afford the £25 per month or whatever it is for the activity?

Most of us who are well off have had times of little or no money, I certainly have. I was unable to afford the bus fare to work or to buy a sandwich at lunch time for years, and had to take my own packed lunch, and take an extra job waitressing in the evenings to make ends meet.

Nowadays, I would blithely spend £10 more per year to make my life a little more convenient. Doesn't mean I have no idea how other people live.

Yes, it annoys me to. I do earn a lot but I am very well aware of how little money some people have (not least because I remember decisions like whether to cycle, walk or get a bus based on cost issues and I tend not even now to eat out because it seems so over priced. I earn a very large amount compared to most people but I will never forget what it is like not to have much - in a sense that is what spurs me on. One of my sons had 2 different boys at school this week asking why he only had one suit. What is wrong with only having one suit for school? Do people have loads of suits?

FattyNinjaOwl Aldi & Lidl nappies are really the best Ive tried, if you have one near you, I got 30 yesterday for £3.49, I wont put one on DD unless we are going out now to save money, she uses potty or loo indoors.
But have yet to master needing a wee whilst shopping!

I'm constantly surprised at how many posters on MN are surprised about facets of my life as a lone parent, e.g. not having a massive support network of relatives and helpers to rush to my DC's schools if they needed collecting and I was at work an hour away.

moggy I've tried them. I got a few small packs of different brands to try when DD was a baby. Sainsburys win as every other one made her bum sore. Even now she's older they do. Luckily she's started to show an interest in the potty, but it could be a while as she's not even 2 yet, and I can't put the 17 week old on the potty they are only £4.50 a pack though and I get 50ish in each pack. Wipes are £3 for 4 packs.
Shopping at sainsburys also means if I'm really on my arse I can use my nectar card to get the essentials. I have a boots card too, but only use that for Christmas presents. (I have a few points on it from having two DC so close together)
I basically sign up for as many loyalty points schemes as possible. (If I actually shop there) so it means I can get a nice amount of points by the end of the year. Which means not having to worry too much about Christmas etc. Buying through the year helps, but by doing that, yet again, I miss out on the best deals, because I can't afford to wait so I have to pay more.

Yabu. Totally. Because the person was only saying, in an abstract offhand way, what would work well for THEM. They weren't saying that everybody was the same as them, of that they had no concept that some people have less than them. Unless they have the IQ of a worm I'm sure they know this.
So really this is just an excuse for you to feel superior.

I think if you've struggled you never forget it.

When DDs were tiny, we could afford to put £5 of petrol in the car each week, (1990). I used to worry each week that we'd need more but I wouldn't have had the money. We're very lucky now,not to have to worry but I still get a lovely warm, happy feeling when I fill the tank up with petrol.

If I were you Op, I'd be very clear about explaining how some live week to week and don't have "spare" cash lying around. It needs pointing out to these people.

DH mate is a city worker, last time I knew his exact wage was 10 years ago and it was 100k. He has contempt for his still poor siblings who 'never made it out of the estate'. I assume he is ashamed of them. He knows full well how poor people can be. He is one of the nastiest people I have ever met.

It is however weird being the only better off person in a family. I have treated my sisters over the years but am petrified of offending them and been seen to show off. One was sharing details of her condemned gas cooker that had to be disconnected and then she immediately said 'I don't what you to buy me one'. I was about to offer but she has her pride and I have to respect that. Another didn't share that she had no boiler for a year and only her electric shower. So I'm one of life's rare cases of social mobility but I am wracked with guilt over my sisters, even the one I don't like and she is the one who takes the piss out of me for being posh.

Sorry bit of a tangent though still about income disparity and understanding but was cathartic.

This might be a bit controversial, but I am not sure people can understand real poverty unless they have lived it, practically and every day. And even then, when you are out of it, it's hard to remember what it was like.

I'm not saying that lovely people can't empathize - they absolutely can - but the empathy tends to run along lines of judgements ('I can see how it would be difficult to afford £20 in one go'). From what I remember, the thing about poverty is that it's the minute-by-minute nature of it that's so wearing. It's the getting up and being freezing cold all day, the having to count every penny, the having to go to lengths in your cooking to eke out ingredients, the devastating panic that sweeps over you when facing an unexpected expense. It's the time it takes to do your laundry at the launderette because you can't in a million years find £150 for a machine - even though you know that it works out more expensive this way in the long run. It's the fact that you pay more, not less, for electricity out of a meter. It's the never having a night out, or a bottle of wine and the social humiliations that go with it. It's the utter, utter self-denial that you have to practice all of the time that is miserable.

I've been there, but am now reasonably off (not rich, not at all rich - but definitely comfortable). I remember it, but it's at a distance from my life now, and that's not the same as being there in the situation. It fades, you forget. But it is nonetheless a whole different experience - my DH has never been properly poor, and while he is very empathetic to others and tries hard to understand, he has never really gone without anything. A while back, we had a period where we weren't able to afford quite as much as usual - I wouldn't say it was a tough time, just a wee bit more constrained - and he was genuinely shocked, surprised and struggling with what I considered really 'easy' bits of self-denial (like not having umpteen holidays a year, not having yet another pair of designer jeans etc). I think a lot of middle class people, when actually faced with a poor lifestyle, would be the same.

*I do wonder how many would seriously take them up on the offer of paying more for the convenience

It works for the DVLA, it costs more overall to pay monthly than annually, but a lot of people take up the monthly option to spread the cost. Not quite the same thing, I know, but people will pay more for something that suits them better.*

I do this. I pay for the TV licence, tax disc, car insurance and home insurance monthly even though it's more expensive over the year, but it's a lot easier than paying for it in one lump sum.

precious when my cooker broke earlier this year my younger brother bought me a new one. I paid him back in installments, but still it was horrible having to accept help from him. It's embarrassing.
Joseph yes a lot of middle class people would be shocked by the reality. I know we were when my parents split and we went from having everything we ever wanted to nothing. My mum couldn't even afford carpet for the living room in our new house. (My dad gave up his job and refused to pay the mortgage on the house, making his children homeless essentially, so we had to move)

YANBU, a few years ago we had all the (v. affluent) IL's outraged with us for being ''ridiculous'' as we hadn't been able to afford a bloody sausage each at a Christmas stall. They were £8! At the time our weekly food budget wasn't much more than that, and if we had anything to spare we might of been able to actually have the heating on that winter.

They still bring it up as if we were BU, I think some people are just oblivious to what it's like.

Fatty - I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. As a child, I think it can create a lot of long-lasting anxiety.

Kiwi - that's just... appallingly insensitive and crass.

It's relative isn't it?

We're 'poor' because I earn less than the national average and am the sole earner. But I'm lucky because we own our own house, we have a car (only recently bought!) and can afford the odd treat now and then. The children won't want for Xmas presents and we have money enough to keep the house warm and snug.

But it's a world away from my 'poor' colleague who lives with her parents, that pay for her car and don't charge her board. She's skint because she goes on lots of holidays - I'm skint* because I'm barely keeping my head above water with debt repayments.

Oh and people like my dad who can't understand why I can't afford to just quit a job I don't like and get another one . He works half the year out of choice and when he does work he gets £60 an hour consultancy fee which is a world away from my job!

*I never describe myself as such as I know how annoying it can be and people are in worse situations.

Smaller quantities are almost always more expensive. I stock up when stuff is on offer now but you also need the room to store it. DH will always pay more for a service if it saves him time, he will run the calculation in his head so he would want the standing order. He also says he won't waste his time to save a couple of quid, I always have and he just doesn't get it at all.

I grew up in affluence, my parents are wealthy and although my DH earns a great wage it's actually not enough to support us comfortably and childcare plus travel is more than I would earn. So, we are skint. For the first time in my life I can't have what I want. I never buy new clothes, hair cuts, lidl is our only option. No wine, no cinema, no holidays. It's hard and to my shame it's been a fucking wake up call. I didn't know I was born. I honestly don't know how people at my DCs school who have less do it.

Pressed send too early: to add, I know we are lucky in so many ways and this feels like temporary tough time as I can work eventually, but this small insight has given me a wake up call in being sensitive to other people's situation. I wasn't before. :(

Yanbu. Every penny counts. I absolute do not begrudge things being paid for in instalments, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do clubs and that going up as my parents were utterly skint all the time and they always paid in the smallest amount of money as possible.

I grew up in poverty (although things improved after my dad died when I was a teenager as mum got a large life insurance payout) my parents always counting to my mum's payday, never ever any treats, my dad constantly missed my birthday as he had to work (he was self employed miles away), heating was only put on in the morning when there was a frost.

I recall one year where my parents borrowed $180 from me to pay the bills and my mum nicked $10 off my bedside counter as every dollar was used.