.... to be a little annoyed by these two?

[Pipbin]

They have just bought a house using the 'help to buy scheme'.
Excellent, well done them.
But what annoys me is the, 'people who can't afford just don't try hard enough'.
He's 22 years old and earns £27,000. I'm 40 and only started earning a wage like that 5 years ago. There is no way on earth I could have been saving £500 a month a few years ago.

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34804311/im-20-and-i-own-a-250000-four-bed-house

It's hardly a black and white distinction between free-spending Loadsamoney types blowing their wages on the latest mobiles, booze and charlie and the 'Just Say No (To a Night Out) and Live With Your Mammy' brigade, surely?

In my early twenties in the early 1990s, I had been entirely self-supporting as a student since I left school, living in a series of fairly squalid houseshares and squats while keeping going on scholarships, grants and about three part-time jobs on top of a full time-degree. My parents were in no position to help, or even to let me live at home after I'd left, apart from on the most temporary sleeping on the sofa basis (lots of younger siblings, no room). And home ownership was emphatically not on my mind, nor was it until I was over 30. That doesn't make me heroic, it makes me fairly typical.

My question is why home ownership is seen as quite so constitutive of adult identity (apart from the instability of life as a tenant, which was what drove me to scrape together a deposit and view in despair a series of incredibly tiny flats in grimy bits of London...)? Especially as it seems to involve infantilisation by continuing to live with your parents in order to do it.

They do sound really smug. I'm glad I didn't buy a house with my husband when we were that age. We've had fun living in different towns and had a great time in our 20s socialising, going on holidays, going to gigs and generally not worrying too much about money. Now we're in our 30s we have bought a house, got married, had kids etc.

I don't see why people are annoyed at them. How many people who are teens or in their 20s who live at home try and save any money? A lot still spend every penny they have on clothes, expensive phone contracts and 'going out'.

My DH (then boyfriend) and I bought a house at 26 (not through any scheme). We had both saved up hard for years and were both on wages under 18k, we didn't buy all the latest gadgets/phones or go out (apart from to our friends homes). We were lucky that we still lived at our respective parents whilst saving up and didn't have children. We also were realistic on where we bought. There was no way that we could afford to live in the same boroughs as our parents, so we went somewhere cheaper.

Since owning the house, we have rented out the spare bedrooms (which are box sized) cheaply to our friends. This has helped us with the mortgage and lets them also be able to save up for the future.

Bloody hell DS is 22. Tying himself to a massive mortgage for an overpriced soulless newbuild in Cheshire, is the last thing I want for him.

At the moment his plans involve some travelling, a postgrad, and a rented flat in Manchester with his mates and girlfriend, close to bars, clubs, gigs and all things happening.

When he's thirty he can think about the mortgage.

Agree with NerrSnerr. DH and I spent our 20's moving around to further our careers (including living in 3 different countries) and having fun. Not paying a monstrous mortgage.

I wish it were that black and white, if only we had a Sky TV subscription and some exotic holidays to cut back on, then we might be able to afford a house.

They come across as smug and naive, it's got very little to do with their hard work and sacrifice and everything to do with the privilege of being able to live rent-free with parents.

I'm more of the understanding of HD's rant

I haven't had clothes, expensive phones, holidays, nights out... everything my friends were doing I didn't. I'm now 29 and in a slightly stronger position. I still can't afford any of the above but life when I have kids will hopefully be easier.

I had no help from parents though, admittedly.

they lived with parents. If it costs £1000k a month to pay rent (a guess) and say they saved for 2 years (another guess) then they have received a collective subsidy of something like £48k from their parents. So they can not go to pubs all they like, it's irrelevant - it's a simple case of bank of mum and dad.

What a pair of charmless fuckers, too.

I don't get the slight sneering tone on here about young people living with their parents while they save up for a deposit on a house. Admittedly, and as I said in a previous post, this couple seem a bit too young to be chaining themselves to a mortgage.

But in general, people living at home while they save up sounds sensible to me as long as everyone is happy with the situation.

But this is an attitude I see a lot on MN. Anyone still living at home past the age of 18 seems to be seen as an odd bod or a loser.

No Daisy. Do it if it helps and you have pleasant and conveniently situated parents. I'm hanging on in London to give my own DC that option.

But DON'T then sneer at or lecture people who don't have that option for finding it harder to save a deposit.

Oh I agree the couple came across as totally naïve regarding other people's situations, including the fact that not everyone has the option of staying in the family home rent free.

But just some comments such as staying at home 'infantilising' people made me a bit

Up to them I guess. But at that age the idea of never going out, of never having take-aways, never sharing a bottle of wine with a sunday lunch, never spending money on holidays, books, cinema etc, basically never enjoying the non-essentials is horrendous.

And what a mountain of debt. Scary stuff.

But just some comments such as staying at home 'infantilising' people made me a bit

A lot of Public Policy etc is infantilising now. People shouldn't be forced to live in the parental home for years to have a shot at home ownership should they? Prices shouldn't be this mad.

They are lucky I guess, I think/assume they lived rent free at their parents? - I know I could not afford to financially support a 22 year old for a couple years. Maybe not all parents can.

Am I the only one seeing a wasted youth! He will go mental in his forties trying to recapture his youth because he's middle aged at 22. I want my DCs to live, really live. Also what's wrong with a little terraced starter home, no one needs a four bed detached until they have a family.

But just some comments such as staying at home 'infantilising' people made me a bit

A lot of Public Policy etc is infantilising now. People shouldn't be forced to live in the parental home for years to have a shot at home ownership should they? Prices shouldn't be this mad.

Yes, that's what I meant, really. It's quite mad to me that this is now seen as an almost compulsory rite of passage to home ownership. To get a home, you have to spend years that you would have in the past spent living independently (even if you hadn't two coppers to rub together) prolonging your schooldays in your childhood bedroom, while working in an adult job. It shouldn't be the case.

And obviously it's very generational and cultural. My generation of Irish people all expected to have to emigrate, as there were no jobs, so even those of us who went to university were basically planning our departures -- and yes, I think it made us older, because we knew we were going, and there wasn't any sense of a parental safety net. But there was certainly no feeling of pressure to 'get on the property ladder', which makes the whole phenomenon seem like some compulsory natural phenomenon.

Sorry, didn't phrase the last bit well. The expression 'getting on the property ladder' makes buying a house or flat seem like something natural that you have to do. I wish it were a more rental-friendly culture here. I only bought a tiny flat because I was sick of being moved on every year from rentals, or facing a massive rent hike and agency fees.

I was their age when I bought my first house, however then it was what most people did at that age - nearly all my friends bought houses in their early twenties. However we had crippling mortgages and negative equity which made paying for the house a big struggle, I don't envy them facing that prospect.

'"We both grew up in detached homes. It's hard to explain without sounding like a huge snob. We were just used to having our own space."

Yes, it is hard to explain. You do sound like a snob.

Everything is easier when you are privileged, educated and have the bank of mummy and daddy to fall back on.

I have very little time for the Rory and Ellie's of this world.

A mortgage at 20? No thanks!

Rory and Ellie sound like plonkers.

Wow this young couple are getting a hard time.

Yes they come from privilege but clearly not ridiculous privilege.

Yes they sound naive and don't know the struggles others go through but that's not what they were being asked to be fair. They are also comparing themselves to their peers, I'm guessing mainly people they know, when it comes to talking about others not making the sacrifices.

Plenty of young people live with their parents up to their early 20s, it's not unusual at all.

They saved up their money and have got a mortgage on a house they love. Good for them.

It really, really annoys me when "saving while living with parents" is touted as the solution to the housing crisis. This isn't an option that is available to everyone! And nor is it really being independent, or 'very disciplined' or 'doing the graft' - it's essentially asking other people for a whole load of unrewarded help.