Btl is a fools game these days

[DyslexicScientist]

It seems clear that the gov are targeting this, with removing the interest tax relief, charging 3% extra stamp duty on second homes.

Its no surprise as they will care less about someone with 10 btl then 10 people who want to buy.

I know a lot on here have portfolios, are people buying more? Selling? Or keeping steady?

I don't see how it makes BTL a fools game tbh.

We are basic rate tax payers so the changes I assume (I've not yet looked into it properly) wont affect us badly...but even if it did wipe out our monthly profit margin from our two mortgaged BTL's (or even if it cost us money), that's not why we have them.

We have them for the long term, to cash in/use the rental income for our pensions, when the mortgages are paid. I still don't know of any other way that's as effective to save for the future because I wouldn't touch a pension with a bargepole and have no intention of paying into one.

For us, the changes won't make much difference and certainly wouldn't make us want to sell.

The incentive is the price, why should the state have given you tax breaks in order to let your house, then give you an incentive to sell too!

I'm still waiting to see how they handle things like people buying one house on a bridging loan while they try to sell another (rather than renting)

or those who have two flats and buy a family home before selling the flats

or a multitude of other cases where the stamp duty penalty would not stand up ....

waiting to see the Treasury notes on 6th Decemer

Toad - "Just out of sheer curiosity, is it not possible to sell a tenanted property in the UK?"

It is, but typically people looking to buy for themselves seem (ime) to be put off by tenanted properties, since they inherit the risk of having to evict them - and the property may be in a neglected/unloved state even if the previous owner handles eviction. Which just leaves another LL as prospective buyer. In short, it can make the property that much harder to sell.

No I don't think these changes will make a great deal of difference except perhaps to the very expensive properties. What will make Btl a fools game is a severe reduction of housing benefits. I agree the landlords have had it very good for a long time and tenants get a poor deal. We've considered btl but couldn't be bothered with the hassle even with using an agency.

The actual aim of the changes is not to get buy to let properties back on the market, its to make BTL less of an attractive prospect for small time investors.

One of the big issues in the property market is people who own one property and have some equity, buying another as an "investment" it crowds out others who want to live in homes, and vastly favours those who bought houses a few years ago over those looking to buy now. So the government have made it less incetivised for people to do this.

We have ours for the very long term, as in we hope to pass it on to DC and just have the income. We paid cash and ftb weren't interested in our property anyway. We will be hopefully buying one more in a couple of years. Ours has gone up 30% since we bought. I don't think you can go far wrong with property, whatever happens, if you are in it for the long term and not greedy with the rent. Ours was never for a quick buck. We already have pensions, savings, isas, premium bonds, a big enough home etc.

The nut bags on hpusepricecrash are getting very upset about this thread...

www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/207381-mumsnet-btl-thread/

Gosh Harpo im flattered that they pay us such close attention!
They hang on our every word

Agreed mrsdere, now reading this thread which is quite interesting so far
www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/207377-15-houses-to-avoid-new-stamp-duty-law-on-btl/

I'm glad im not the only one very about the pp complaining about middle income people not being able to invest in btl.

Btl is investing with borrowed money, its risky and hardly a good thing.

I think that if you are a higher rate tax payer - whom most LL in the SE prob are, you will pay twice as much tax on the income. So either that's ok as your mortgage payments are well below the rent you are earning. Or you are out of pocket each month but doesn't matter as property has increased so much in value. Or you are out of pocket and can't afford the gap so will sell. After 2017 you will sell at a bit lower than expected as the buyer is possibly paying higher stamp duty (if BTLetter) 14,000 on 300K instead of 5,000. So roughly 10k lower.

So I suppose from teh above there will be quite a few more houses on the mkt before 2017. And as a result the values will fall, or at least there might not be such a bunfight for them as at present. And a good bit more money is going into the exchequer's purse.

Seems all good to me.

I agree see. Ibthink many people are unaware of the changes. A slowdown and sell off of btl will probably men lower prices. Doesn't matter if you buyba house as a home and work out what you can afford even if ir increase etc.

Its quite a jump!
Look the figures here
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/buy-to-let/12016569/New-buy-to-let-stamp-duty-How-much-will-you-pay.html

Oh, I see stamp duty change is next April.The tax change is being phased in to 2021.

And the previous changes - not being able to a set wear and tear amount against tax but only that which has receipts seems fair. And I think that applies to only furnished lets. The abolishing of permanent Non-dom status is said in the press to make a difference but I'm not sure what that means. Posters on here say overseas buyers will buy more but not according to the press 2/3rd of the page down here
www.propertyindustryeye.com/landlords-tax-perk-to-be-reined-back-over-next-six-years/

Thats two new tax changes in 6 months from Osborne making BTL less attractive. The hardest new tax is the first one and I believe this tax will only increase, perhaps up to 5% within this Government. If you add a small increase in interest rates then anyone 'taking a long term view' with BTL and especially new entrants to BTL will have a bit of a wake up call in a 5-10 years time. They may look back and realise their pension pot would of been better in shares, tracker funds, bonds and even cash.

Shocking really, all the philanthropic private landlords, magnanimously providing homes for people who have to rent,
Voted Conservative
Kicked in the teeth

We managed to buy a flat which was ex rental
It had been rented out by amateur LL - a middle aged couple who rented to students.

The elderly lady downstairs was flooded nine times due to poorly maintained plumbing.
We are gradually restoring this lovely listed building which has been sadly neglected just so some people could make a buck.

Recently we have found re- wiring which was downright dangerous. We are getting an electrician to look at it and make it safe.

So many small time LL are not properly maintaining their buildjngsnot taking responsibility for their properties nor their tenants.

It's great to see our building come back to life as more LL sell up. Us private owners and the taxpayer are now funding repairs to this listed building which should have been done over the 20 years it was in the 'care' of these people who live a comfortable existence in a wealthy suburb.

Enjoyed reading the Houseprice cash forum!

Venger has quoted me [proud] (although not quite sure of their point)

Are you a mn Venger?

BTL isn't necessary borrowed money...it can be savings. Y'know, the things you get from work, if all goes well.

it seems that whoever hijacked suzannes account has now gone and the real person is back.

Teeheehee

Trying to pin me down to a fixed personna
tsk tsk
I am complex, nuanced and multifaceted!

you were being reasonable - I was quite stunned. Glad you are back to normal.

(wanders off to check phase of the moon..)

Love your comment Suz.

You need a long spoon to sup with the devil...