To feel slightly put out at the implication that IVF babies are more precious?

[jollyfrenchy]

As part of a discussion about choking and cutting grapes for small children, one lady said she also wouldn't be giving her daughter raw apple or carrot pieces until she was 5 years old for fear of choking. When she was then told she was being a bit overly paranoid. In response she agreed, but explained it by saying that it took 11 years of trying and 2 rounds of IVF to have her daughter, and she wasn't willing to take any risks at all.

Now, I do understand that sort of experience has an effect on you, but I slightly resent the implication that her child is somehow more precious than others. Kind of like, "Oh well you can afford to take risks, you've got three kids, and anyway, you if you lost one you could always have another. This is the only one I've got and will ever have so I need to look after her more."

Er, no every one of my children is as precious and important as yours, it's just that in life you have to take risks and eating apples is a risk I'm prepared for them to take.

Also surely it's not beneficial to your oh so precious child's well being to wrap them in cotton wool and never take ANY risk with them. In a similar way I know people who had a hard time having their baby or who adopted after years of heartache, who then go on to completely spoil the child (never say no, let them have their own way all the time etc) because they're so grateful to have them. Again, not doing the child any favours really.

OP YABU - she was just explaining where her worries came from.

I see my daughter as very precious and special. I'd had to endure infertility, then a complicated ectopic pregnancy followed by an unexpected and wonderful pregnancy but which ended with my daughter being stillborn at term. her little sister (our rainbow) was born just under a year later.

It takes a lot of willpower but I have consciously tried not to be overprotective and precious with her. She doesn't need the burden of being the special being who really saved us (although in many ways she did), she's just a normal little girl who doesn't need us to project our fears onto her at this young age.

Plus I'm now pregnant with a surprise baby and I'd hate for people to treat her as less special because she is 'just' a baby who hasn't directly followed years of pain and hurt.

What we've been through as parents I'd say makes us better parents - not comparing ourselves to others but ourselves. If we'd fallen pregnant easily and had no heartache we probably would have taken a lot more for granted and perhaps been less patient or grateful for what we have.

I'm a bit of a fraud Maryz I'm not going through this, my daughter is.

It's a different kind of torture, watching your child suffer this way. She will be childless now, but if she had conceived it would have been the most precious child ever.

I make no apologies, none.

well I have got one of each - my eldest is an IVF baby, the younger was conceived the usual way. I love them both the same.

But having travelled an hour each way to a clinic several times a month - some times several times a week - and sat in countless waiting rooms surrounded by stressed, frightened and crying couples. I am very aware of how precious (yes! that word!) my family is. We had a 19% chance of success - I was 33.

We had been offered counselling to begin the process of accepting that we wouldnt have biological children. Its pretty damn stark message to be told. Your future changing and you've no control over it.

However, this is not why YABU.

YABU because the woman didnt actually imply her kid was more precious than yours.

You decided to read to read that in to her comments.

You dont like her. Thats ok. For all I know she is an awful person. But you should really admit - even if it is just yourself - you were looking for a reason to be offended

Own your own crazy.

She didn't mean her child is more valuable than yours because of the way they were conceived, I think she was just trying to explain why she is perhaps overly cautious. All those years of trying probably included some losses so now she is even more worried about something happening to her DD than if she hadn't been through that experience. She wasn't saying your DC are disposable or interchangeable! She was just trying to explain her own behaviour. I think you've taken it the wrong way.

What a heartless comment, Cactus . You clearly haven't learnt anything from this thread.

Evening all
Time for a reminder that Mumsnet's raison d'être is to make lives easier.
Peace and love.
Thanks so much

How lovely, Cactus (apt username)

Surely, all kerbs means is most precious to her daughter and her. They would have seen that child as most precious due to the heartache of getting there.

I don't think any sane person would objectively say that one child is more precious than another. Although the whole mystical concept of parenthood is almost certainly more precious to parents for whom it didn't come easily.

YABU. You are being really mean - it's nothing to do with how precious a baby is, it's about how comfortable she is with certain things. Her choices as a parent are nothing to do with you. Mind your own bloody business.

I suffered years of infertility I was told I would never have a child. I did also have 2 mc.
I know every child is precious but mine was v hard won.
I try not to spoil and wrap in cotton wool but it's hard.
I am old now no periods if I lose ds I'm not a mum there is no other chance I might as well kill myself. I am v sad for ds not having siblings. It breaks my heart but I know I am lucky.
Infertility is a awful thing I barely made it through in one piece. I just thing people need a bit if empathy. I have been through some horrible things in my life and nothing has been that bad. Years before it happened to me I was doing a research project and it showed that their is only one illness that has a bigger effect on mental health and tests cancer.
Yet it does surprise me when people don't cut grapes etc as I wouldn't dream of doing that - if you weren't maybe you're friend had a point that you are not as careful as her.

cactus your post was disgusting and stupid. one of the nastiest comments I've ever seen on here.

Maryz

I will come back to post later. Too upset by it to do now and be rational.

Fucking hell CactusAnnie! You should be ashamed of yourself...

The grief and hollowness of infertility is hard to express, Maryz said it so much better than I ever could. Your interpretation of what this lady meant seems unfair and extreme.

It's really not that complicated. All children and people are precious, special and deserving of the same levels of respect, compassion and love. But some conceptions ARE more precious and special to those who experience them because they are so hard to come by and have followed years of despair, grief and internal rage. And after the conception, those feelings don't just magically go up in a puff of smoke, they linger in dark corners of anxiety and irrational guilt. Of course my IVF DD isn't more precious than anyone else's child, and no child is replaceable, but if anything happened to her I couldn't have another child, end of story. And it's gutting to read threads on here about 'wondering whether or not to have 3rd, try for 4th' etc, with women so lucky to have that choice and not have the slightest inkling how incredibly lucky they are, talking about the possibility of more children as if it was just another bloody biscuit.

Be kind to women that haven't had the same opportunities as you, the same capacity for the joy of children. Thank your lucky stars that you have been so blessed to have the family you wanted.

And to all those on this thread that have lost children or not been able to have the ones they wanted, there are lots of us out here who truly empathise with your grief and feel nothing but love and compassion for all of your struggles

Each persons experience is different, I don't agree with saying a IVF baby is more precious, as to me every baby, and person for that matter is precious.

My two are my life, and I am so proud that I get to be there Mum.

Like Patience I have also suffered from 3 miscarriages and it was the lowest point of my life. My grief was utterly raw and I reached depths of darkness and despair I never knew possible.

Some people on this thread, like Patience has mentioned, have reminded me yet again we have to keep it all to ourselves because god forbid our grief makes anyone uncomfortable. I think about my lost babies and the grief still overwhelms me.

I'm now pregnant again on my 4th attempt and the terror and anxiety is suffocating. And yes, you may think me unreasonable but quite frankly, I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks.

And until you've been in my shoes, or Patience's shoes or quite frankly anyone else who is struggling I suggest you keep your lack of empathy to yourself. No one is saying their child is anymore important than anyone else's. All children are precious but that poor woman is talking about her anxiety and why she is anxious.

And I know how she feels.

Thank you Maryz Yippee and others for your incredibly compassionate and eloquent posts

As for CactusAnnie....

Brummie

Brummie

To be fair to CactusAnnie, she was just responding to one post where the poster said that if her daughter had managed to conceive then absolutely that child would be more precious than others. Although I'm sure that poster meant more precious to them.

Keeping your miscarriage grief to yourself is s different issue. I don't know anyone who feels that the grief of others makes them feel uncomfortable and that they should just be quiet and get on with things. The grief of another is not about me. They are free to act however gets them through the night whether that's talking about it constantly or not at all. Unless you're going through it you suck it up and show a bit of compassion.
The op was nasty.