To rebel against reading diary

[Stirling84]

I think I am being unreasonable - but I've cracked.

DS is meant to record pages read. He reads every night but rarely logs more than one session a week. So we have about ten pages of nearly empty grids and 'sad face' comments from teacher.

sigh

"Don't you think poor people have opinions on reading diaries?

Bang out of orider"

I said middle class, not rich. And I stand by what I said. Middle class parents regardless of income often have a "Oh, the mundane rules don't apply to us" attitude to schools.

And it doesn't matter how a child reads. It takes 30 seconds to write "Reading The Butterfly Lion. On chapter 10" in a reading log.

I never understand why something so simple is made so difficult by some people.
My 7yo is a voracious reader and we've always managed to do it. It does not kill an interest in reading, only if parents are miserable about it.
DS puts his book mark in his book when he's finished in the evening. In the morning he comes down with his book, we write the page number in the diary and if I've listened to him read I write comments (sometimes I listen to him & have a conversation to check his comprehension, every night he reads to himself). It takes 2 seconds and once you are in the habit of doing it, it's just part of the day. He loves reading (although he's sad at the moment that he's on the last of the How to Train your dragon series as he's loved them).
Teachers are not mind readers, this is a simple way to track progress of kids at a variety of levels. There are lots of things in education that aren't perfect but I won't be getting my knickers in a twist about primary school reading records.

"Where does the bookmark go?"

"Finished Jeremy Strong. Read some of Xxx"

Bertrand - I explained up thread - of I wrote that I'd be walking to school with an upset and cringing little boy. He would explain to me in great detail that 'Jeremy Strong' needs to go in the author column - but that there is a separate title column where we need to write 'the running squirrels and their adventure in the dastardly temple of doom' (or whatever this book is - I just saw the author name on the cover). He would then point out that we are required to log the pages - and would go rifling through his bag to retrieve the book to find out the number of the last page.

The following day he would take over from me - and sit there with no socks and shoes painstakingly writing it all out - and finding that the title is too long and the boxes too small for his wonky handwriting

I don't resist logging on principle - but we have genuinely tried - and it's really not working.

Reading just doesn't need to be a battle with him - there are a hundred and one other things that need the careful supervision, the logging, the incentivising.

I don't think it's so much about different social classes, or reading style. It's about personality type and whether you're internally motivated or externally motivated.

If you're more of an internally motivated person, then you'll read regardless and recording it or having to do any kind of admin around it gets in the way. Teachers who need this kind of documentation need to recognise this and find a way to either track reading skills without diaries (keeping a record of books checked out of the school library maybe?) or make the diaries fun in some way so completing them is in itself fun and rewarding (someone mentioned a computer quiz? That has the potential to be interesting at least)

Externally motivated people will find pleasure in having their achievements recognised and will find satisfaction in having a paper record. So diaries will work well for them.

It's basic habit psychology. Guilt tripping doesn't help. Nor does applying a one-size fits all philosophy. The end goal is to get children reading (or it should be!) and supporting that habit will look different for everybody as we're all motivated slightly differently. No-one is doing it wrong as long as the end goal is achieved.

(And yes, for many school is a habit overload which can cause a lot of unnecessary stress. Dropping the diary habit may give a little bit of breathing space for very little downside)

Yes wonky, that works if you can write it. Our 7yos have to do it themselves, book title, chapter, page log, summary of content. Every day, it is a battle. This takes longer than reading a chapter and they would read more if there wasn't this thing to be got through which takes a lot of time and brings no joy. It is not simple, I don't make it difficult, it just is, unless I have a 7yo who is unusual to hate this.

That's interesting rubberduck.. That explanation fits us.

rubberduck that explanation rings very true with DS.

He is naturally suspicious when he feels people are trying to manipulate him - and will often prefer to pursue his own baffling projects. He dislikes team sports, holiday play schemes or anything with a bossy adult involved. He never responded to star charts as a child.

School referred him for an assessment two years ago - and we now have it in writing that his hearing is perfect - but that if instructions have more than one or two clauses he will switch off.

Hah Stirling, I hate all the same things your son does :D I remember my mum complaining that I was "such a defiant child" as reward/punisment structures didn't work at all for me.

However, I did do really well at school and I still really enjoy the process of learning. Love of reading is a big part of that. Just don't ask me to keep a diary of my progress

Fay I quickly mumbled an 'I'm sorry about the neglected diary' at pick up time - and she said she'd written me a note back. Ironically DS left the diary at school so I don't know what she said!

I would just write weekly in his behalf if he won't. 'DS read for at least an hour daily this week'

I like Gretchen Rubin's take on motivation-types (she calls it the four tendencies, depending on your mix of internal and external motivations): www.gretchenrubin.com/happiness_project/2013/01/four-personality-types-which-one-are-you/ )

Schools have really improved (since I was a kid) about recognising different learning styles, but I think motivational style is also worth a look because it plays such a big role in learning.

I hate bloody reading logs. I find them joyless and I find it really hard to care about filling them in. All my kids are good readers they read independently. Ds spends his lunchtime in the school library. As the two older dc are AS I am more concerned about their anxiety levels/ social skills as reading is easy for them but dealing with life in general is more tricky. So the teacher can stick as many sad faces in the log as she wants.

Oh THANK YOU for this thread!

We have moved schools recently, and I am seriously struggling with the culture change of record-keeping. My DC1 is never without a book - she reads independently and voraciously and indeed got praised by her teacher for it and noted that it's her go-to activity. But the "??" in the friffing reading diary when we forget to note exactly what she's read in a given few days (because there were so many books, because she wanted to read alone, because the school book is boring and she'd rather enjoy something else, like yes Mr Majeika, because I don't feel it's important to read aloud to me that day if times tables are what she's really struggling with) is really getting on my tits. Previous school was happy she was a reader and that we read a lot. This school, records must be kept. Pain. In. The. Bum.

But I appreciate records must be kept, for Ofsted - I just don't see why in addition to the bedtime story I read aloud (where we discuss complicated vocabulary, and motivation of characters etc.), and other fun reading DC1 chooses independently, we need to struggle through "xx page-xx page" of Dull School Book and dutifully note it. Instead, if I can write once a week "DC1 read ALL THESE BOOKS and we discussed X Y Z" that would be sufficient, surely?

You'd love ours. It has to be filled in daily. (Class totals are recorded daily and compared against the other classes weekly in assembly). You can sign retrospectively if you like but it won't 'count'. If the record is unsigned or forgotten, or the book bag is forgotten, it counts as a 'miss'. You're allowed three misses per YEAR (including weekends and holidays) Any more than three and your child misses the end of year party.

We also have to record some kind of maths in it three times a week. So I have to write in it ten times a week, on at least a daily basis. Children are not allowed to write in it.

The whole thing is fucking awful and I hate it. Five 'misses' last year and tears because she missed the party. I cried too. Just grim.

My DS8 also have a reading diary, he was moaning about it in the beginning but it has infact help him focus. He only writes things like, I like it when Mr X dropped the shoe etc

I actually encouraged him to write something negative when he didn't like the book. It was slow....

Children are not allowed to write in it? Yet children are being punished for their parents being too busy or forgetting or even being too lazy? What a horrible school and a horrible attitude.

I hate reading diaries. I got moaned at for not hearing my then year 4 DC read. No thanks, your school books are crap and they're reading Harry Potter perfectly by themselves at home (i ask them questions to see if they've got what they've read)

Besides, I'd rather be reading my own books!

Luckily apart from that one time no other teacher has made a fuss of the fact I never sign the record, or take the record to school.

Reading records do drive me a bit nuts. Not so much in younger years but I really hoped that ks2/year 3 would see then end of them. No such luck. Now not only have to record date, book, page numbers and a comment but also get comments back. E.g:
DS: I learnt about the Romans.
Teacher: What did you learn?
Next night DS: I learnt Boudicca came from East Anglia.
Teacher: Whereabouts in East Anglia?
Me: Wtaf.

Ida that's completely bonkers, and bloody cruel actually :(

Ida, that's AWFUL :(

And so counterproductive - what's a kid going to do when it's the holidays or they've left primary? STOP READING because it'll be such a bloody relief not to do something that is such a chore. (And in their mind, reading will be a chore, because that's how it's been presented to them).

Why isn't there a face palm emoticon?!!

Since my daughter has gone up to KS2, her reading record monitoring has been rather militant. She is a voracious reader, has read every single day of her life since learning to read (and been read to before that). She devours books at a rate of knots, has excellent reading comprehension, spelling, grammar and reads aloud better than a lot of the year 6 students.
She often forgets to bring her reading diary home, and I often forget to fill it in (it has to be a parent filling it in). She came home upset that she wasn't being moved along in the reading challenge because I hadn't signed her book. Even those occasions I had recorded her reading, this didn't count because I hadn't initialled it. It was VERY obvious that it was an adult that had written in it and I thought this was extremely petty. Then I was told that just reading wasn't enough - she had to read aloud, to an adult, every day, then the adult had to test her comprehension/give reasons why/describe characters' feelings etc. WTF??? I did actually go into school and tell them that they are actually discouraging my daughter from reading - the exact opposite to what the reading challenge was supposed to be doing (not that it would actually stop her from reading). None of this encourages a habit of reading for pleasure if you have to stop and analyse each and every bloody word in the story! It makes me really cross. They argued back that they had to know that the child was actually understanding what they read. My daughter read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, on her own, when she was 5 FFS! She came to me in fits of laughter in the middle of it, telling me all about the chapter called "Square Sweets that Look Round" and finding the whole concept hilarious. I hardly think she's lacking in reading skills!! They wouldn't listen though and so we have to do the mundane stuff every single night :(

Overrun - there must be a way to subvert that system.

"What did you learn"
"I learned to only read picture books in future because then I have to write less"

Thinking about this, there really has to be a better way to encourage reading in schools. This is the computer age - if teachers want a record, surely scanning barcodes when kids take books out of the library would be a quicker, more accurate and fun way to do it (my kids love the automatic book scanners at the library in town). A short well-designed computer quiz when they're done can test comprehension without being too intrusive.

Give extra reading time as behaviour or achievement rewards. Books as prizes. Maybe a book recommendation zone where kids can put their favourite books from the library to help their friends choose their next book. Or maybe thumbs up/thumbs down stickers on the inside cover. It shouldn't be yet another chore at the end of a very tiring day, it should be seen as a way to unwind and as a pleasure.