To throw away the landlord's shit in the loft?

[MuttonWasAGoose]

We've just moved in to a nice house. The landlady mentioned that the loft was partly boarded out and that they'd left "a couple of boxes in the very back that we couldn't reach."

I just went to stow some things and pretty most of the boarded out space is full of their stuff. It's about a dozen or so cartons of crap. Mostly toys and holiday decorations.

None of this is on the inventory. I'd like to use that space for our empty suitcases, camping gear, etc. There's already a large shed full of their stuff that I grudgingly accept we can't use. But the loft situation annoys me.

DH feels it would be wrong to empty the loft. I have been in this situation before (previous landlord was much, much worse and I did throw everything away.) I just have no patience for this. I think it's infantile to be unable to take responsibility for your belongings. If they can't be bothered to move it, or even inventory it, then they clearly can't really care about it.

The first carton I looked in had what was clearly a well-loved child's teddy. Even I don't have the heart to toss that. But what about the other stuff?

When we moved in here we had no window keys so had some unlocked (think big childrens height ones) and the some locked. In the end after keep asking I sent a very arsey email with something about fire regulations and means of escape etc and they came and changed all the handles so I could lock and unlock windows as I wanted.

If there is an agent do it all via them if the landlord is a bit wishy washy as they don't tend to want a bad name. Not sure why someone said the ladder should be reimbursed for though I've never had one already in the property and have my own.

I've messaged my husband to try the key in other locks. If it works then no problem! I'm currently more worried about the way the door locks but at least there is now a key next to the door. I'm just not sure if the younger two children can manage that in an emergency. There's no legal issue here - it's just how I feel about doors and fires.

I'd like the front bedroom windows unlocked - there's a porch roof at the front of the house so it makes sense to be able to get out that way. On the other hand, how many people leave their windows unlocked? I visualise forgetting to unlock them or lock them. Ideally, similar to the front door, they'd be openable from within even when locked.

I have keys for all my windows, but I never lock them (only if we are away on holiday). To be fair, most uPVC (hate them!) windows can be removed entirely if someone wants to get in, so there's little point locking them!

I had to replace all our downstairs windows when we moved in because either none of them had windows that opened and those that did had a really tiny one at the top that a cat could just about get in. This included the kitchen window, so there was no airflow at all in there. Pointless!

I couldn't sleep if the windows didn't open - I have to plan my escape route!

I try to be Mutton. But not on the basis of being a good landlord, more on the basis of being a decent human! I won't be made a mug, but at the same time, I know from many years of renting, that if there's a problem you need it sorted out quickly. In the house we rent out we've had two young families and that does bring a greater sense of responsibility. You don't want to have littlies and no heating (or unreliable heating) in the winter! I wouldn't live it with it, so why should I make others? As a landlord, if you need a new boiler, than you write it off against your tax bill anyway, so the cost is minimal - why not just bloody get on and do it?

I've also found, and I've been a landlord for seven years now, that if you treat people fairly a) they're more likely to be flexible ("Would you mind awfully if I gave the plumber your number so you can coordinate a good time for you." rather than fannying about between four different people.) and b) take care care of the place and c) STAY! Which in the end is what I want.

In the case of the deposit, the old tenants moved out just before Christmas, and were told that we had to be checked with before the deposit was released (it was in the scheme, we didn't actually have it). Thing is, no-one ever asked. I was eventually called in the second week in January, at which point the old tenant had been told, "They're still deciding." No I bloody wasn't!! I didn't know it was an issue!!

I gave the estate agent very short shrift when I found out. And it was a lesson learned on my part. I should have sent an email to the tenant and the estate agent with instructions to release it the day they left - that's what I'll do in future.

Any word from DH on the window locks??

We rented out our house at the same time as renting one in another area.

Under no circumstances would we have been able to get tenants in our property if the bloody windows couldn't be opened! The letting agent required two full sets of keys for every door and window throughout the house. Mainly because um.......if there's a fire it would be nice for tenants to have a decent chance of escaping the property. We paid the letting agency 10% of the rental we received every month for them to manage the property - well worth it as they dealt with all the day to day issues if the tenants had eg maintenance issues that needed sorting.

OP I expect you didn't think to ask if there were keys to open the windows - it's a given really.

Our experience as tenants was that renting directly from a landlord (rather than via a letting agency) was disastrous. Getting electrocuted by a light fitting was just one of the many delights we experienced which he simply ignored. I am sure there are great landlords who manage their properties directly, but we definitely got a rogue who wanted his £1900 every month for doing naff all, having little care for our safety.
We then rented via a letting agent and by and large this was good, plumbers etc were sent promptly when necessary.

If they're pvc, they do lock when you click the handle to locked position. You can't push them open from outside. The key is just an extra precaution but it's not necessary. And you can buy those keys as replacements at locksmiths (they're not unique to each window)

We've got keys for every window, but I keep the ones on the ground floor locked, with a key nearby if we need to get out. The windows upstairs I'm not too bothered about locking, if we were in then the dog would hear someone getting in, bark and do his welcome dance at them, knock them over and lick them to death, giving me enough time to ring the police. If we weren't in, then we're insured, and the alarm would be on.

Those window keys do fuck all. The lock position is locked unless the windows are really weird. Window keys are to give people a false sense of security when in fact a burglar would just break the glass and put their hand through to open it as the keys are generic. Or just take the whole window out. Get them open, the chances of them helping you in a burglary are much less than hindering you in a fire. And I agree about the front door, I'd want to be able to get out without a key too.
Re. The shed, I know I'm just a 'woolly minded emotionally blah blah amateur' landlady, but anything I left in the shed was gardening stuff that I thought the tenants might actually need, like a lawnmower, some fence paint, a few garden tools and gloves. Have they actually crammed it with bikes and stuff? If so, I'd just ask again as well. Sometimes it is the time scale you have to move out that makes it really hard to empty everything. Despite us saying we were leasing from June, our tenants were desperate to be in by May and so we really struggled to get every little piece out and sorted with a month less, but their need to be in (pregnant wife) was bigger than our need to sort the last few bits like the boxes in the loft. My priority at the time was making the main rooms clear, spotless and inviting. The loft and shed are the last things on your very long list.
I just really want renters to have some understanding of what it's like to be a landlord moving from your own house. It's not like moving house where you know the people buying will just have to ditch anything they don't want and will be probably redecorating, you have to get the whole house perfect and liveable and inviting as you are moving out, and that's actually quite difficult. Imagine moving to another country, you have to pack up everything you own from the house you have probably lived in for a lot longer than any rental, you are sending it potentially to another county or country so while living in your current house you have very minimal stuff, you may also be selling your car at the same time, you are trying to get every single little finicky house problem fixed (most people who own just live with a few of these), then when all the rooms are bare and you have no stuff of your own in there, you realise how bad some bits look in the cold light of day and you have to repaint/wash carpets/get everything just right for the tenants who you want to impress. It's a lot to do usually in a very crammed time so if the LL misses something try to have compassion that they want to sort it rather than assume they are lazy or sentimental or greedy to take your storage. Just ask and most landlords want you to be happy!
I'm now renting and I love it. I know I could pack everything up within a week at the absolute most, I could leave without worrying about 'wear and tear', there's loads of stuff I wouldn't have to move this time as it was provided by landlord like mops, vacuums, bins, even plates and a few pans. It is a lot easier to move when you rent.

Surely it depends on what grounds you accepted the house. If you were told the loft was not for your use (even if it was left accessible and unlocked) then it's not for your use.

If you were told you were welcome to use the loft but were made aware that it contained items belonging to the owner that were not to be removed then that's the basis on which you agreed to proceed with the tenancy.

If they promised you exclusive use of the loft and then failed to clear it, you would be within your rights to ask for the stuff to be removed, but that wasn't the case.

That's not actually true. If they don't specify that a space is excluded, then it's my space. The boxes in the loft weren't mentioned until after we'd signed (we weren't able to view it until we brought our own ladder.)

'im tired of renting and battling for space'.....is buying your own place not an option then

Oh yes, just buy your own house and the problem is solved, can't believe you didn't think of that

I imagine I was supposed to be baited into explaining why I don't buy a house so that my reasons can be picked over for evidence of some character flaw or reason why I don't deserve the full use of the loft.

The windows are all sorted, by the way. The one key does work and they're unlocked from the inside. I hadn't even thought of the windows, but the landlord or my husband mentioned them and I thought that was an issue. It's OK.

Well done for not rising to the bait Mutton.

Glad the windows are sorted and hope she comes good on the rest of it soon.

You sound like a great tenant. Next time you're looking to move, PM me

I want to make it clear my above post was sarcastic!

That was obvious, gorilla!

Thank goodness! I always worry that it doesn't come across in text form, despite the

You sound very annoyed, but as you said, there's always going to be a few niggles to sort out. The conversation you've had with her sounds positive. For the sake of maintaining a good relationship with the person that owns your home, I wouldn't rush to throw things away if she doesn't keep to your schedule. Always better to be on good terms with your landlord, so if she doesn't come this weekend, suck it up and chase her rather than ditch her belongings. It's not for you to decide what's worthy of keeping and what isn't and if you pick wrong, you've made an enemy of your landlord at an early stage. Don't let your anger at previous landlord take over.

The attitude toward tenants in this country can be pretty bad. I appreciate not all landlords are unreasonable (thanks those who comment on threads like this, it gives me hope!) But many can be. My husband and I are stuck renting for at least the next few years as we just can't save up enough for a deposit. Loving the comments suggesting people like us should "just buy" - if only it was that simple! I appreciate the OP's attitude is from repeatedly having to deal with shitty landlords and agents. After a while you just stop giving them the benefit of the doubt. We have had to move twice in less than 2 years, not through choice but because our landlords decided to sell. We are paying a much higher rent than the typical mortgage in this area, and expect to keep doing so as long as house prices are shooting up. The landlords of our current place left (not an exhaustive list!):
A broken microwave
A useless, ugly massive vase
Stained see thru curtains we had to replace
Baskets of miscellaneous crap in the bathroom - old toothbrushes etc
Broken watering cans in garden
Not enough furniture, though the place is supposed to be furnished
An awful, very old and saggy mattress I have to cover with duvets otherwise the springs poke into our backs
And who could neglect to mention the moth infested threadbare carpets, vermin in the loft, boiler problems or leaks in the roof (except the agents when we moved in!)
Yes, I'm bitter. I don't blame the OP for being bitter too and assuming the worst.

Also, as many have said before, if it's not on the inventory then feel free to chuck it out - the Landlord should have put it on if they wanted it back at the end of the tenancy. It's nice of you to remind them about it and offer to get it all down from the loft for them - shouldn't be your responsibility to clear out their house for them.

When we were looking for our current house we viewed a place that was being advertised as empty with no onward chain, but which looked lived-in - fully-furnished with books, DVDs, electrical goods, toys out in the children' rooms, shoes and coats in the porch, wedding and family pictures all over the walls, clothes in the wardrobes etc.

We assumed the info had been wrong, but when we queried it the estate agent looked a bit sheepish and said no, it was unoccupied, but the owners were going through such an acrimonious divorce that they had both walked out (presumably with one of them taking the children!) and found places to rent separately, and had refused to come back for any of their stuff. They'd apparently replaced everything - even down to the children's shoes!

The plan was for the house to be sold as seen, i.e. the buyers would have to move in and then go through all the personal possessions of an entire family and dispose of them, including taking their wedding photos off the wall, clearing out their underwear drawers, throwing out paperwork etc. It was completely mind-blowing. We did buy our current house through the same estate agent and when I asked him about the other house several months later he said there'd been no offers and everyone was saying what we had said: nice house, but the whole situation was just too weird!

kungfu those vendors probably thought that the buyer would be getting a real bargain. They probably thought that their personal stuff would be of value to other people. I really think that a lot of the time, people think their things are precious or would at least be appreciated by others. That's why I say that my stuff, if abandoned in a loft, would be "shit and crap." Very little of what I own has the resale value to make it worthwhile to shift and almost everything I own people already have, themselves.

How odd, KungFu. Why not just ask a local charity to come in and tag the furniture they want, and then pay a removal firm to deliver the tagged furniture to the charity and box up all else to the tip. Job done.