Lending friends money

[Notimefortossers]

Putting myself out there. Got flamed last time I posted here! :o

I do want a bit of advice on how to handle it as well as to be told whether IBU, but wasn't sure where best to post.

Recently a friend of mine got herself into a bit of a pickle with her bills. She asked me if I thought she'd be mad to take out a £200 loan (on which she'd pay back more than double what she borrowed) in order to catch up on stuff she was behind with. I have some money sitting in an ISA that I've saved, but I'm not likely to need it for at least a year so I said please don't take out that loan, I can lend you it. She did protest a bit, but once I assured her it wasn't a problem for me, that I wasn't going to need the money before she'd paid it back, she accepted. Then later that day before I went to transfer the money she asked how I'd feel about £300 with a suggested payment plan meaning I'd get it all back only a couple of weeks later than we'd originally agreed . . . I said no problem.

That was 4 weeks ago. She's made one payment. Now she's asked me if she can borrow another £150 because 'she's seen some stuff on ebay' (I know it is probably for Christmas for her son so I can sympathise) and offered to up her payments. AIBU to not really want to lend her any more? There are two reasons, firstly I'm worried that an increased payment will really be a struggle for her, but that was the first thing I said to her and she says she's worked it all out and it will be ok. Secondly, it's the reason she wants it. Like I was happy to lend her money she desperately needed to get herself out of a hole, but less happy about lending her it so she can shop for stuff. I've been skint before (for a long time) so I get it, but in that position I'd just not buy stuff. But she's a grown up! So I also kind of feel like it's not really for me to say how she handles her finances!

So here comes the advice part. I feel awkward now. This is a really good friend of a long time who I see regularly, she also does stuff for me like has my kids, I also have her son for her, but recently I guess the balance has shifted so I'm probably asking her more than she asks me! Plus I have 3 and she only has 1! I don't want this money to become a 'thing' between us. When she asked me it was just all a bit awkward and I said 'Are you sure you can manage that?' and she said yes and then I said we'd wait n see what happened with a financial issue she was having that she's now messaged to say is all sorted. I'm hoping she will have sensed how awkward I felt and just won't ask me again . . . but I'm seeing her today and NO idea how to handle it if she asks me again!

Sorry for the essay!

I don't think OP should invent anything either. I think just be honest, say you don't think you should lend more money until she has repaid you (wasn't sure if she'd stuck to the repayment plan but thought not?).

Generally, never lend money unless you don't need to see it again. Especially to friends. Makes it really complicated.

I don't think you have to invent an emergency - just tell her you want to keep the remainder of your ISA in case you do have an emergency.

Also, I'd offer to pay her for her childcare, as she obviously needs an income.

Umm, unless your friend is a registered childminder I don't believe it would be legal for you to pay her for childcare anyway...

You were kind to lend her the £300, you would be unwise to lend her any more. You don't need to apologize or explain, just say that lending her any more isn't possible.

Never lend friends money
Never ends well!
You'll start to resent what she spends her money on instead of paying you back

Totally outing myself now, if she's on here I'm screwed . . .

I lent her the original amount 4 weeks ago, she was to pay me back every two weeks. She's made one payment, the second was due Friday just gone, but when she checked her bank there was no money. So she rang DWP to find out what was going on to find out they'd stopped her money (an error on their part, not her fault). She then opened her post to see they'd sent her a letter. I saw said letter so I know she wasn't bull shitting.

I saw her on Friday because I stopped over to borrow something. She was on the phone to them when I got there. When she came off the phone, she came out, explained what had happened then said she was really sorry she wouldn't be able to get the payment to me until it was sorted out. I said not to worry.

Then she said 'I was already going to ask you if I could borrow another £150' . . . I pretended I didn't hear her and carried on playing with her son . . . couple of minutes later she asks again, says the ebay thing. I said 'Are you sure you can manage that?' she said yes, she'd worked it all out, but then this went and happened. So I said wait and see what happens with this then. She said they wouldn't not pay her it and that they would back date the time they'd missed, it was just a temporary cash flow thing.

I was going away for the weekend and I said I hoped she got it sorted and I'd message her if I could (didn't know if I'd have signal, wi-fi etc) . . . while I was away I got a message to say it had all been sorted and she hoped I was having a good time. I sent one back to say I was glad she got it sorted and was having a great time.

Today will be the first time I've seen her since. She is DEFINITELY not as bad as some of you are saying! She IS my friend and a friendship has a lot more to it than money. She has been there for me emotionally when no one else has, loves my kids, NEVER has a problem having them even though there's so many of them! We laugh, we cry, we chill, we talk, we go out . . . and it's been that way for 20 years. I think she is being a bit cheeky asking for more, and I think she knows it or she wouldn't have had to 'work up the courage' to ask me . . . but she's not a bad person. And she doesn't have anyone else to ask either.

Thank you for all your responses. I'd rather not lie, but I think it's easier than the truth. If she asks again, I think I'll say I need to keep what's left in there in case of emergency.

That second request is a red flag. Be careful how you handle her, because in my experience once someone sees you as a walking cash machine, resentment isn't far away. I may be selling her short, but if you turn down her latest request don't be surprised if she says she can no longer pay you back because she can't afford to with Christmas coming up

Do you have proof of the original loan? I would be tempted to put it all in writing, old loan and new loan, so that you have evidence in case she decided she doesn't want to pay you back.

You are really fooling yourself OP with your friendship. Of course she's been there for you, your kids etc and I'm sure she meant that, but not paying your back, making excuses, then saying she's seen something on EBay for £150.

Most of us sort our own shit out money wise single parents or not... She's coming to you because you're a soft touch and a mug and she thinks that due to your friendship history you'll be fine with this. I wonder why her family can't help her. Or why she can't get a part time temporary job?

I think, given the help she gives you, I'd maybe lend it and let her pay other back when she can.

I don't think she's a pisstaker, and I never say that on these money lending threads!

Oh, also my story I had a BFF of 20 years too, she was a single mother I wasn't.... She got into debt, didn't tell me...

Next thing I know she's got me and another best friend being investigated for benefit fraud for my friend (impersonating her). I have no idea if my other friend was involved (I was not!) but i know my BFF could have defrauded DSS herself... It was only because her boyfriend told her that super didn't have the bottle to defraud that she believed me, not our friendship. 20 year friendship gone up in smoke after that!

People do very strange things when they're stuck for money.

She is effectively giving you at least £50 each time she looks after your child for free, so provided you are not seen as a walking cash machine maybe you should lend it.

You are not comfortable lending her more money, therefore don't lend her any more money.

If it was my friend, I wouldn't want to lie to her either. Just be honest and tell her that you don't feel comfortable and don't want money to become a 'thing' between the two of you.

Also pp is correct that unless she is a registered childminder, it would not be legal for you to pay her for childcare.

Do not lend her any more money. Say you cvan't get it out of your ISA without a fee. Or any other excuse you can think of. You might not be in control of ow your freind spends her money but you are in control of how you spend yours. And that means not lending to spendthrifts. Tell her to get some debt counselling and concentrate on living within her means.

I would just have said its not possible for that amount but maybe offered a small cash amount - £20 to tide her through the week or so for them to sort the money out - she is on benefits so she can't afford to have loans but a £20 gift is not something that is too big an ask if she is minding your kids for you occasionally - that is friends. You would give her food or secondhand clothes or toys no question so to me its int he same vein just giving control to her over what to spend it on.

But sam as I mentioned I also have her son once a week, although I only have him for 2 hours and she has my son for 6, but I've had him on many more overnights than she's had my brood and I did also offer to pay her for the arrangement when it started and she said no. She also has another son who is now 13 and I used to have him ALL the time without pay when I had no children for her to return the favour. Also, I agree with other posters that we shouldn't confuse the issues. We never quantified how much or how often we looked after each others children before I lent the money so why should we now?

And I worry am I seen as a walking cash machine or not? Seems like I offered £200 to stop her taking out a stupid loan, then within the day she wanted another £100 and within in the month another £150. If I say yes to this will there be another request? Will it keep going until eventually I HAVE to say no?

RB68 I often pick bits up for her here and there. I bring over dinner for everyone on the day that I have her son, so there's food for her when she comes in from work. When she looks after my son I provide his food. On Friday when I went over I would have given her any cash I had in my purse to tide her over till she got sorted and told her so, but I didn't have any cash and I didn't have time to go get any because I was running around like a headless chicken trying to get sorted for going away. I made sure they had food in and everything. On the other hand she also gives me her sons old clothes and toys for my son (as her son is older) so it works both ways. Yes, we're friends.

Don't lend anymore. She was already pisstaking when you offered £200 and she demanded £100. Now £150, for shite on Ebay? Come on! I'm poor. I would never consider borrowing money for stuff on Ebay. For the leccy meter, for the gas meter, for food. But she's had an extra £100 as it is. You're not a bank. You say, 'I can't loan any more out now.' And next time, do not offer.

"Now she's asked me if she can borrow another £150 because 'she's seen some stuff on ebay' "
Well that gives a clue as to why she "got herself into a bit of a pickle with her bills."

You already know you shouldn't lend her the money OP, it's just finding the right way to tell her no. I think I'd do something along the lines of

'I am your friend and I am saying 'no' because I don't want you to get into more debt than you have to - that's why I lent you the money rather than let you go to those shyster payday loan companies. You were actually thinking about going to a payday lender FFS! Way to go, get yourself into so much debt you'll never get free! It is one thing to borrow to pay the gas bill, quite another to do it to buy 'stuff'. And don't tell me 'it's for Christmas', I'm pretty sure your lovely DC will be happy without you overspending. Get a grip. You can't afford to get yourself into debt, and I can't afford to lose a good friend. I am not going to lend you another penny. But - and I want you to think really seriously about this - I offered to pay you for the wonderful childcare you so generously gift me. Be sensible, and take the money. It means a lot to me that you do this, I can work safe in the knowledge that my son is well cared for and happy, and I really want you to take the money.'

She has always been crap with money and admits that herself. I just don't feel like I'd be helping her by loaning her any more. I don't know what income support is these days, or what she gets from the few hours work she does a week, or child tax credits . . . but if I lent her another £150 it would put her payments to me up to £60 every two weeks and I just don't think she can afford that (though it's probably not my place to say!) . . . I can't afford to just give her the money as it's for a very important life's dream project and I will be needing it within a year

OP when you say she's always been crap with money I think my friend (see other thread) was like this... It was £50 occasionally but then I knew my friend also bought weed a lot too...

If you think she can't afford it just say no.

Sorry no, you need to pay back the money I lent you first. She is going to spend it on e bay, not put a roof over her head or food on the table. She sounds like she is not good with money, don't lend her anymore.

Or a simple, No, I am not lending you anymore, you need to pay me back that money.

Soory OP but why on earth cant you just (white)lie and say your dishwasher or washing machine broke down over the weekend, or indeed boiler, and you need a few hundred to replace/fix?? How is she going to know otherwise, especially if its a boiler issue?

She may be a nice. well-meaning person, but she is taking the mickey here with regards you and money. You offered her 200, she then got you to make it 300, then after only one repayment expects you to cough up another 150?

Taking the mick big time!

I think this is a very difficult one. Going by everything you say in your posts, the fact that you offered the first £200 and her default on the payment was really out with her control I think, in your position, I would lend her the £150 being clear that it was all I could afford to lend. I would first work out with her a sensible repayment plan that she can manage to ensure that that money is back where it belongs by the time it is needed. It does not sound to me as if she is a "user" and you do appear to have a good friendship with a lot of give and take between you.

Then I would ask Mumsnet to delete this thread and point her towards the credit crunch pages to help her stay on track.

My experience is the asks just end up getting bigger and bigger. I've lost a friend over it in the end (she asked me to lend her 2 holiday rental houses for 6 months). I knew once in I'd never get her out.

I wrote a list of pros and cons. Except there were no pros!

Just say that you feel really uncomfortable with the situation and you really rather she didn't ask for more. Which is true.