to think it is time Europe had border checks again?

[yolofish]

In the light of the awful Paris events... I can remember the days when you drove between European countries and there were passport checks at the borders, which at least meant the authorities knew roughly who was where. Even today, you cannot leave the British Isles, whether by air, rail or sea, without a proper passport, and in (I think most of mainland?) Europe you need to carry an ID card to fly/or just to walk about your local streets.

Maybe I'm being naive, and all or some of the perpetrators are born within the country where they commit their crimes, but it just seems to me that free entry to a country doesn't mean that a country shouldn't know who is within their boundaries.

I cannot remember a time when border checks held us up, and with new technology (number plate recognition, scannable passports etc) it would surely be possible? After all, France can operate toll motorways pretty effectively...

I get the freedom of movement within the EU thing, but I still think it would be good to know who is where. What am I missing?

In a show of hubris, we have a wall separating the US from Mexico. Illegals still get in at a high rate. We have had cars stuck on the top of it a few times.

Tight borders aren't really a practical solution.

Unfortunately, the answer is gradual change in attitudes towards fellow human beings, which isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

I travelled to France recently via Eurostar. I distinctly remember 2 passport checkpoints within metres of each other, one British, one French. So Britain is checking passports on the way out.

We flew out of and back into Manchester airport at half term. I can assure you that they have very tight security and passport controls. This has always been my experience at Manchester.

Where are you all flying from that is so lax?

Following the news, it appears the attack was planned and executed from Belgium. It would seem to be fairly easy to move explosives and guns around Europe.

Anyone who knows the border between France and Belgium or Belgium and the Netherlands will know that it is too late. They are lines in the map. There are scores of open roads across them. The customs houses and police points have been demolished or sold off. It's like crossing a county boundary in the UK. Schengen is irreversible.

The only people checking my passport on exit at any UK airport are airlines. Then again, not sure I want to wait twice the time in a vast queue to be checked out as well as in by surly staff at undermanned points when it will do zero to stop terror attacks.

My local airport doesn't bother to passport check inbound flights from Dublin, soas someone else said, if you can get to the island of Ireland, and book a flight with a plausible passport, you're in.

At Manchester they check your passport at check in and when you go through security. On returning home there was a great long queue at passport control in Manchester because they were being very thorough at checking passports.

Passport checks on leaving the UK are NOT border controls. They're just done by airline staff who wouldn't have a clue if your passport was false. All they care is that it matches the name on your booking. These checks are often extremely cursory.

Border security costs a lot of money - that's why you don't have outgoing border controls at UK airports any more.

Misti and others are correct. The only checks done by the Border Agency (or whatever they are called now) are coming IN to the UK, not going out. That is just airline staff rudimentarily checking names to tickets.

We should do what the Americans do; make the airlines responsible for outgoing border controls. When a visitor (except a Canadian, I believe) arrives one part of the immigration form is stapled into the passport, and on departure the airline collects that bit of the form and returns it to Border Control.

The airlines would object. Tough.

I believe it is time for full lock down, so sick of hearing the lily livered do gooders points of view, what about protecting the people of this country for once?
We tried it, it didnt work so lets start and sort out what is wrong with schengen and the immigration madness.

In reply to a post upthread, no IRA member was caught by a passport check because travel between Ireland and the U.K. doesn't, and hasn't, required a passport or identity check for donkeys years. Even when the IRA was actively bombing in the UK passport checks weren't required.

Airlines share passenger roster information with the security services and border control.

When you book a ticket on a ferry or with an airline, it is highly likely it is online with a credit or debit card registered to a UK address and anomalous transactions will get flagged.

All this stuff is traceable and tracked.

madbengalmum but you're not in Schengen in the UK and you never have been. What is it you want to sort out, exactly?

You can't have low taxes and pre-war levels of public spending and still do expensive things like checking people out of the country as well as in. The sums don't add up.

Some European countries (eg France) DO have exit controls (for people leaving the Schengen area) but they also typically spend a lot more on public services.

Mistigri, i speak of the countries of europe as a whole.
I am fully aware of not being in schengen in the uk, but i feel that WE as a whole have to sort out the problems of europe as a whole.

Yes I think border controls should be brought back in. They should never have been abolished in the first place. Aand I don't think free movement of refugees or economic migrants round Europe is a good idea. These people have no documentation whatsoever. It was a recipe for disaster from the beginning.

Vivienne my sentiments exactly.
Europe must now get together and sort this out, and stop pussy footing around, as bobody wants to take ownership of this problem.

Nobody, sorry

Well we have just flew in from London Heathrow and we never got asked for ID. Didn't get asked on the flight down which I was shocked about.

Regardless of whether I agree with them being reinstated, how would this work in practice? How did it work pre Schengen? I remember seeing the East/West German border and it was a huge wire fence with security wire , look out towers, armed guards and police dogs.

What was it like between say Belgium and Germany ? I can only remember post Schengen and we've used the back roads whilst sightseeing to go back and forth, did these not exist before?

The roads did exist and there were check points. What it looked like away from roads I don't know but I don't think it was as heavily guarded as the GDR borders.

As far as asking for Schengen to be disbanded - that's none of the UK's business, especially with the UK's reluctance to play any meaningful part in the humanitarian catastrophe that is the migrant crisis and also its attempts to discriminate against EU workers and looking only to cherry pick.

I agree with you OP, free movement of people is a nice idea in theory but a terrible thing in practice.

There did used to be border guards on the back roads but they seemed to just wave you through once they saw the GB plate. This was in the 70s.

Anyway, I agree with Widow about Schengen being none of the UK's business.

What about identity cards? Should they be introduced as well as more stringent border controls?

As a country you need some sort of idea who is going to and from it.
You need to know who is entering and exiting.
It's common sense that border control needs bringing back.

I agree.
This business of letting people flow freely between countries is all very welcoming and friendly.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, people should be checked every time they leave and enter a country. They should bring back border controls. Not having border controls is a decision that clearly isnt working.

And as for that completely INSANE 'open invitation' that Angela Merkel issued - in which she more or less encourage thousands and thousands of people to turn up on Germany's doorstep, without proper checks,
What an irresponsible thing to do!
Words fail me.

It would be interesting to know what the average German citizen really think about her irresponsible actions