to not send my girls on this school trip because of my beliefs

[JustGiveMeTwoMinutes]

The trip is to a mosque and the girls (year 3 and 4) have to cover their heads with a scarf, the boys don't have to.

Just to be clear about where I am coming from, this is about a specific practice which I believe is discriminatory and therefore disagree with. I would not choose myself to enter a building that I could only enter if I wore particular clothes but where that requirement was limited to one gender or one group defined by arbitrary characteristics. I would be happy to cover my head as a sign of respect/tradition if everyone entering the building was required to do so.

They can make their own decision on this when they are adults.

Am I being ridiculous and petty or is it reasonable to stand up for my view that just because a custom is part of a religion that does not excuse it being discriminatory?

But I also think the mosque should not be worried about girls under 11 covering/not covering their heads

what's so special about 11. us that still not a child

Also for everyone posting opinions on what the entire female Muslim population of Britain think - 'it's an act of rebellion' or 'they all resent it' - you cannot possibly put such a large group of women under one banner. Every time there is a thread about Muslim womens' dress there end up being so many women freely handing out opinions about why all these women dress like that.
The reality is these women are as diverse a group as any other - yes some don't have a choice, but others do and they prefer to cover. I know I prefer - for example - not to have a low cut top, or wear a short skirt, I choose to cover up in this way because it is what I want. And the younger generation Muslims who do cover up more - maybe it is not an act of rebellion but instead a sense of being able to express themselves within Britain as Muslims. The older generation who came here were under intense pressure to fit in bcos of the racist attitudes that existed back then.

11 for some girls is when they hit puberty. I think it would be more reasonable to ask girls over this age to cover up in the mosque if they are visiting.

I disagree with pp about schools and workplaces - there are plenty of examples around as I cited, just we tend not to notice them because to us they are 'normal'

but the clothes they are wearing would cover up wouldn't it?

generally curious as to why puberty on a child would need "hiding" . under anytbing more than.regular clothes.

such as knee length skirts short sleeved shirts, shorts and t shirt fir pe etc

"I wont be sending my DS to any religious school trips as I am not religious and they are my beliefs, so they should be respected too. It's fair."

I think that's very narrow and restrictive. Do you ever set foot in any religious building? Have you no interest in other religions and knowing more about them?

We klive in a UK which allows us to specualte in why Muslim women might dress in particular ways. We're allowed to express our views on it. Yes some of it is rebelling against more liberal parents, about making a stand - like teenagers all over the planet do. Other girls take off their hated religious clothing as soon as they are away from their fathers and brothers of course and are delighted the school forbids it. Others again as some said above perhaps have parents who would have loved to cover more but decided to fit in. The british jews mostly fitted in and have done very well for that. I suspect people tend to better in a country they move to if they fit in. Integration is not a dirty word. It used to be only when you saw a very few arabs from Saudi in Harrods in the 1970s you'd ever see any muslim covered in the UK. In my view the increase in covering is a very backwards step which damages women

I think that's very narrow and restrictive. Do you ever set foot in any religious building? Have you no interest in other religions and knowing more about them?

I'm very fed up today. Anything which creates understanding is welcome.

I'd be very happy if the UK got rid of all unfair conventions about sex - so any uniform demanding only skirts for women and girls abolished, laws allowing topless men but not women changed. I've been swimming today and wondered why it's accepted that my son's naked chest isn't worthy of comment but my daughter's costume must cover her nipples. Their bodies are visually identical from the waist up.

"At least they still adore art, poetry and literature and protect their history."

Yep. Famous for protecting their history, the Taliban.......

Taliban? I meant ISIS.

I thought that it was referring to the current Iranian regime.

Yep. Famous for protecting their history, the Taliban.......hmm
Yes Bertand.
Why are people defending awful people?

ISIS arent in Iran. They hate Iranians and see Shi'a as infidels, lowest of the low.

giles - every race and culture has different views on what 'covered up' means. So yes generally school uniform is covered up according to British culture, but Muslim culture sees arms and legs as parts to be covered up too.
Just like we in Britain generally require women to wear tops but in some tribal cultures women go topless as the norm.
Whether or not we personally agree with another culture's 'covered up' standards is besides the point if you are entering their place of worship.

But why does it need to apply to chikdren. that's the question. of a married woman chooses to cover her arms or legs that's fine.

however why would a child who's years off marrying or being seen as an adult. need to be covered.

But the question is can you require special treatment if your 'culture' differs from or is at odds with where you live. And if so, by how much?

I heard a man on a radio call in show this morning saying that you ought to obey the laws of the land in which you live. So far ao good. He then went on to shoot himself in the foot by saying that stoning a woman for adultery was ok under sharia law because they would need witnesses so she would be proven to be guilty. Someone with that type of though process living in the UK was worrying to me. To think that it's actually OK to murder someone for having an affair? He just didn't see it as in any way wrong.

I have a 9 yr old. she is at teh stage where she likes her pants not to be on show (despite me explaining it's unnecessary to worry about it) but she has no embarrassment or sense that her arms and legs would need to be covered fir any reason other than its cold.

I don't understand why a child needs to hide all exposed skin when surely no culture should see them. as anything other as a child no matter what stage of puberty they are at

I guess I'm asking why puberty is the landmark when that happens as young as 8 or 9. and why not age of consent/marriage

Maybe in ye olden days that was the age girls would be betrothed/promised/married ofd, as was the custom here.

Men are usually sexually attracted to girls with breasts etc so covering girls up at that age in theory protects the girls, given arabs and other muslims are apparently worse than other Western men because they cannot resist sexual urges unfortunately. Covering up younger girls was not the tradition for many even in Islam.

But if it wasn't the tradition within Islam then why when entering a building full of people who follow Islam. and away from these western men is it still necessary if they are safer there.

and if religions.can ne updated to keep online witg medical.advances fir example (after all transplants are relitiveky mew) can ot not be updated here?

And that applies to all religions btw.

ad medical advances happen and laws change and our understanding of biology/science (round reproduction for starters and how prevention is not killing a baby if it hasn't been made etc) becomes clearer. surely there needs to be an overhaul.

one that allows fir the fact people live longer and get married later in life. or allows for the restricting to be relaxed to allow for practicalities at school and work etc

oh FFS here we go again. Do you not get tired of being a childish twat?