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AIBU?

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Original poster

About being "proud of your roots"

342 replies

CleansingSurfaceWipe · 13/11/2015 09:58

I was just idly reading about Dermot O'Leary being "extremely proud of his Irish roots" (his parents are from Ireland, I believe, though he grew up in England). It suddenly struck me how weird I think that whole concept is.
Is it not just as absurd as someone being "ashamed"of their "roots"? How can they be a cause for either pride or shame?

OP posts:
TheBunnyOfDoom · 13/11/2015 10:00

YANBU. I agree. It's not like it's something you pick or achieve. But I also think patriotism and preferring your country over another country a bit weird. They're just differently labelled bits of earth.

Hoppinggreen · 13/11/2015 10:00

I agree, DH is German and we always make sure the DC know about Germany and visit etc but I don't think either he or they feel any special pride due to where he was born.

RaisedByWolves · 13/11/2015 10:02

I agree! I have foreign "roots" and couldn't cate less. Its an accident of birth, I could have been born anywhere! What is there to be proud about in such a passive process? If anything, people trying to assign me some sort of identity based on my origins just annoy me because I feel they widely miss the mark of who I am. I guess maybe its some social shortcut for trying to get a measure of a person?

SirChenjin · 13/11/2015 10:03

Totally agree. It's maybe one of the reasons I don't get the whole nationalist thing up here.

Tiivola · 13/11/2015 10:04

YANBU

Nationality is an accident of birth, like the colour of your skin.

Scremersford · 13/11/2015 10:06

SirChenjin Totally agree. It's maybe one of the reasons I don't get the whole nationalist thing up here.

I agree that some people seem to be excessively proud of their roots. "I'm [insert nationality]" therefore "I'm this and that". Hmm

MildVirago · 13/11/2015 10:08

Spoken like someone who has never been an immigrant, or the child of an immigrant, OP.

I don't even know who Dermot O'Leary is, but (as I think I posted on another thread recently) Irish immigrants to the UK suffer worse mental (and to some extent physical) health than almost any other immigrant group, and research indicates that in some cases this extends to the second and third generation. His parents are likely to have encountered discrimination and prejudice for being Irish in the UK, and if his life was also marked by that, or by his parents' experience of that was something he was aware of growing up, then surely that explains his decision to take a positive position on his Irish heritage?

DH and I are Irish, living in the UK, with a London-born three-year-old. He already gets 'your mummy talks funny' from his pre-school mates with marked local accents which are not immediately appealing to this ear so I'm certainly aware of countering that by making sure he's aware of Ireland in a positive light. I hope it will continue to be part of his identity wherever he grows up.

TheBunnyOfDoom · 13/11/2015 10:11

Spoken like someone who has never been an immigrant, or the child of an immigrant, OP.

Well, I'm the child of two immigrants, both from different countries. Am I allowed to say what I said?!

CarriesBucketOfBlood · 13/11/2015 10:11

I once met an American girl who proudly proclaimed that she was 'Irish' and could therefore drink lots. My look was Confused especially when she proceeded to throw up after four pints.

I don't think there is anything wrong with patriotism. I am very proud of being a citizen of a country with a progressive, liberal culture that I far prefer over that of other places in the world.

Patriotism doesn't have to make you blind to the fact that some things aren't perfect here. It also isn't synonymous with nationalism.

HPsauciness · 13/11/2015 10:12

I think the issue may be the word 'proud' which doesn't sit comfortably with some people. My children's roots on one side are from a different country and culture. I think they are quite proud of their heritage, actually, they have made a huge effort (as have we) to engage with it and find the different aspects of it interesting (e.g. like different traditions, food, different attitudes towards some aspects of life). I think it is enriching for them. There may also be negatives, as someone else has said, people can be disparaging or say rude things to you or discriminate on the basis of those 'roots' and so being pleased you have them isn't a bad thing.

SirChenjin · 13/11/2015 10:13

My BIL is Irish - he doesn't feel proud/unproud of his nationality. It's just where he was born.

Most of us in the UK are descendants of immigrants - or we've moved around the UK. I feel proud of the difficulties faced by my parents because of how they overcame them - not because they were born in X place.

Noofly · 13/11/2015 10:16

DC have both US and UK passports. I think they find their US citizenship more "cool" than anything to be proud of.

JasperDamerel · 13/11/2015 10:17

All it means is not trying to pretend to come from a different, possibly more socially acceptable background, but instead doing the things that other people might do without thinking about (calling a child after your grandmother, carrying on with the traditions you grew up with and sharing them with your children, not ditching family for new friends etc.

Being proud in those circumstances tends to mean "not being ashamed, but celebrating the good stuff" rather than "insisting my way is best and no other is acceptable".

If you look at the baby name threads, or the trick or treating threads, you can see quite a lot of people suggesting that keeping up with national/regional/class norms if they made be away from group is shameful.

SparklyTinselTits · 13/11/2015 10:18

SirChenjin completely agree. My mother is Polish, and I spent my childhood flitting between the uk and Poland. I'm not necessarily proud of my roots...I am immensely proud of my mum for over coming the struggles and prejudice she faced as an Eastern European immigrant.
And I think I'm allowed to be quite proud of myself for not allowing my education to be compromised due to the awful bullying a was subjected to because I was "a scrounging polak" Hmm

Jw35 · 13/11/2015 10:19

I don't understand what's wrong with being proud?

Birdsgottafly · 13/11/2015 10:20

I'm 47, from immigrant background.

Suffered throughout my childhood from legal and accepted racism.

I think some of it is in answer to when I was growing up, when anything other than a white UK background was seen as a source of shame and people were entitled to make that clear, even your teachers.

People of a shared Culture can have struggles that are unique to them and if they want to feel proud of working through those struggles, or what it took to survive, they have a right to do so.

Pico2 · 13/11/2015 10:24

I am proud of some of the people in my family history, particularly when I hear stories about the efforts they made to get an education and to educate their children. I can see how that attitude to education has filtered down the generations of my family and hugely benefitted me. That side of my family comes from Ireland and perhaps I would say that I'm proud of my Irish heritage. But if I do say that, it is effectively shorthand for being proud of my specific Irish ancestors and how they lived in the context that they lived in.

Luckystar1 · 13/11/2015 10:24

I'm Irish, living in England. My DH is English, our son only holds an Irish passport and will not wear an English jersey of any nature on my watch Grin

I am extremely proud to be Irish. I feel that it is a huge part of my identity. This may well be because I'm a catholic from north of the border, and so have had to (for some bizarre reason) had to argue at every juncture since I've lived here that I'm 'Irish', who knows, but I am definite and actively proud to be Irish!

AFewGoodWomen · 13/11/2015 10:24

Jw
I think that being proud of something you have achieved is great and understandable. Being proud of something you had no influence over and in many cases is random
Is odd.

MaudGonneMad · 13/11/2015 10:25

I think the specificities of Irish immigration to the UK are what is at play here. The complications of moving to the former (semi-)imperial power. All the tensions bound up with that, from both sides. The added pressures of growing up Irish in Britain during the Troubles.

I've experienced a fair degree of anti-Irish prejudice since I moved over, in the 21st century; it was undoubtedly much stronger in the past.

I think O'Leary's comments have to be understood in that particular context.

And agree with PP about the baby name boards - esp when it comes to Irish names.

TheBunnyOfDoom · 13/11/2015 10:25

I'm proud of my parents for overcoming racism and for being who they are, but I'm not proud of them for being born somewhere! It doesn't make sense to me.

VocationalGoat · 13/11/2015 10:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
CleansingSurfaceWipe · 13/11/2015 10:30

If your great-grandparents perpetrated genocide, would you have to carry their shame?

I do understand that sometimes the idea of pride is to combat previous stigma/racism/persecution.
But it seems to me that pride will always have its flipside, and a blanket sense of equality and Elsa's Let It Go approach might be better.

OP posts:
Dachshund · 13/11/2015 10:32

I'm not excessively 'proud' of my heritage/roots, but I find it extremely interesting! My background is quite an unusual mix as my mum is the child of two immigrants of different ethnicities and my father is Jewish, which is culturally significant to my life although he and I are both atheists.

I agree that where you born is as much an accident as skin or hair colour, but there are certainly intrinsic cultural traditions that are lovely to preserve and pass down to our children, especially as the world becomes more of a global melting pot, and that should be celebrated!

JasperDamerel · 13/11/2015 10:34

Things are a lot better now for Irish people than they were 20 or 30 years ago, but I see the same treatment being passed on to different groups. Muslims get all the terrorism/oppression of women in the name of religion stuff, and people from Eastern Europe get the whole stealing our jobs/assumption that you have no skills or education stuff.