About being "proud of your roots"

[CleansingSurfaceWipe]

I was just idly reading about Dermot O'Leary being "extremely proud of his Irish roots" (his parents are from Ireland, I believe, though he grew up in England). It suddenly struck me how weird I think that whole concept is.
Is it not just as absurd as someone being "ashamed"of their "roots"? How can they be a cause for either pride or shame?

Sorry Luckstar but I don't understand your last post at all. Are you saying people from Northern Ireland aren't British, and your comment about being Chinese or British makes no sense to me at all.

I got shillelagh jokes as a fellow at a Cambridge college. Ignorant gobshites.

I'm not proud of the accident of where I was born, although I am relieved that I don't come from some areas of the world (for example I'm relieved that I don't live in a country where huge numbers of the population have no access to toilets or running water).

I also thankfully don't measure my success as a person by how well some people I have never met play sport. I think that saves me from a lot of disappointment.

Go raibh maith agat Maud - great name by the way!

Recently a friend was going on and on about the name 'Siobhan' - 'I couldn't believe how it was pronounced, when I read it I thought, what's that word, isn't it weird, why is it spelt like that' etc etc.

IT'S BECAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE YOU MORON!!

I'm American and DP is Scottish. DD will be raised Scottish, however I want her to be knowledgable and appreciate aspects of her American roots. We will celebrate Thanksgiving, for example. I grew up on the West coast so I want her to understand the struggle of pioneers giving up everything to start a new life. However we are also descendent from Native Americans, so I want her to understand how everything was taken from them. I think it's a good lesson in cause and effect. It can be related through family history and photos, along with family artifacts. I suppose it is very American to feel that connection to more distant ancestors... But there are lessons to be learned from it so DD will be told and I will remain proud of that aspect of my family history.

That kind of shit is ALL OVER the baby name boards. Only for Irish names, seemingly.

Agree that it's a really interesting example of soft prejudice. Would make a good subject for a sociology article.

It isn't a source of 'pride', really, is it? IMO, it's a source of interest and shared experiences, possibly, with those who are also from Place X.

So I suppose the answer (from this thread at least) is that nationality-based pride tends to occur in response to discrimination. Clearly, the latter is stupid, illogical and inhumane. And perhaps if we could get to a situation in which it didn't occur then the need for pride in attachment to places/heritage would diminish.

Yes, why is it only for Irish names? I can't imagine someone sitting there saying 'Piotr what an odd spelling, why is it written like that?' or 'Khalid, why is there a 'h' in it? Why isn't it just Kalid?'

That particular friend was making out it was spelt Siobhan for no particular reason, and others were agreeing with her!! WTF???

There's been quite a good snarky joke about the mispronunciation of Muireann in an episode of the new season of Catastrophe (co-written by Sharon Horgan who was born here of Irish parents, and grew up partly in England and partly in Meath).

MaudGonne, I got potato jokes at an Oxford high table more than once. The wit!

Customer as a NI nationalist (loosely tbh, mostly just nationalist as I'm not unionist). So I consider myself to be Irish. As I am entitled to. And I hold an Irish passport as will my children.

Others in NI might consider themselves British, I don't, nor do almost 50% of the population of NI.

What I mean about Chinese comment (which was purely an example) is that in England (I can't comment on anywhere else), people feel able to tell me where I'm from and what nationality I am, despite me telling them something different. I feel that the same would not happen to other ethnic groups (including other European nationalities). Does this make sense?

Spoken like someone who has never been an immigrant, or the child of an immigrant, OP.

(P.S. As it happens I'm the child of an immigrant, MildVirago ).

I forgot Catastrophe was on - I must look it up!

I was at a conference the other day and met an Irish woman and we both commented how nice it was to meet another Irish person - despite migration I meet very few. Both she and another Irish professional I met previously were desperate to go home, they hate it in England. I like it but I can see why they find it hard. It can be so dispiriting having to defend who you are all the time.

And Sucking, don't tell me how I should feel thanks.

When does the "proud of your roots" thing stop? There's a poet who is always banging on about his Welshness. It turns out he has a Welsh grandparent. That's one quarter. So he is three quarters not Welsh. I have a Welsh grandparent too, and other bits and pieces thrown in and I'd be spinning round in circles if I had to celebrate everything I'm composed of.

I find it weird picking and choosing what you think are "approved roots" and harping on about those.

i don't think it is just Irish names. I've seen a lot of assumptions about foreign spellings of familiar British names (eg Kacper), African name and also names perceived as working class. A lot of the "problematic" Irish names fall into the working class category.

A lot of the "problematic" Irish names fall into the working class category.

And why do you think that is?

I think it happens with place names as well as baby names. I've struggled to pronounce some place names (I still don't really get why Alnwick is pronounced the way it is, although I wouldn't make a thing of it in conversation) and I've heard people mangle place names I know. Surely the polite thing to do is to accept that some people may not know how to pronounce something, and correct them nicely, and for the people who are corrected to try and say it properly next time, and nobody to be snarky about it?

I don't get the idea of being proud of something that you haven't done.

I moved for work and so now I get made fun of for having a 'regional' accent. I don't care, I am happy with my accent and not at all ashamed of it but nor can i be proud - I didn't do anything to have this accent, it's an accident of birth not the result of merit.

Nationalism is generally weird to me because that too is just an accident of birth. But it can make sense in that you can say you are proud of living in liberal country if you are part of making it like that, through voting, campaigning, speaking up etc.

"What is there there to be proud of?"

#verybritishproblems

Can anyone answer my question from earlier:

Do you think if your parents/grandparents/great-grandparents perpetrated (as opposed to survived, as in the examples given here so far) overseas attrocities, then you should feel shame about your "roots"?

(and before anyone assumes anything personal about this, no, it is not - to my knowledge - the case for me/my ancestors ).

Remembrance Day is always tricky. My children see themselves as English, so I let them take part in events, and both school and church are very inclusive so I am happy with that, but I do seem to end up explaining at least once a year that a poppy is not a politically neutral and inclusive symbol to everyone.

Jasper what exactly do you mean by 'working class category?!!

Cleansing - my German friend (who is 30) feels a lot of shame about the fact that her grandparents were Nazis. She gets drunk and cries and apologises for it.

"the polite thing to do is to accept that some people may not know how to pronounce something, and correct them nicely, and for the people who are corrected to try and say it properly next time, and nobody to be snarky about it?"
OOAOML - if someone genuinely doesn't understand how to pronounce a name then of course the polite thing is to just tell them. The thing I object to is the whole 'Why is it spelt like that? That's so weird, why is there a b and a h?' etc. When I've tried in the past to explain that it's a different language I get blank faces.

SirChenjin, surely you're not saying that you can answer for all of your BIL's feelings and experiences

You're absolutely right in your use of "surely you're not"

Cleansing - nope, I don't feel any shame for my roots based on what my forebears did. I am only responsible for my actions.