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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To say no to any more overtime?

43 replies

childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 06:45

I'm a nanny. I work full time. I often get asked to work extra and I always say yes unless I genuinely have other plans (which is rare!)

I sometimes work overnight for the family and don't get paid as soon as the children are in bed until they wake in the morning.

I'm really starting to feel that working overnight is becoming too much. Granted, the children don't usually wake in the night, but I don't sleep well knowing I'm on duty. I don't think it's good for me or the kids because I just end up cranky after not much sleep.

I realise parents have it a lot worse, I know I'm lucky they sleep through, and I honestly admire other parents so much - I can't picture myself in a situation where I will ever survive with sleep deprivation! But WIBU to say no to any more overnight shifts? Babysitting is part of my contract, but overnights are not.

OP posts:
MythicalKings · 13/11/2015 06:48

YANBU - to not pay you is taking the piss.

DoreenLethal · 13/11/2015 06:56

No of course not!

Believeitornot · 13/11/2015 06:57

Are you a live in nanny?

Original poster
childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 06:58

Yes, I'm live-in.

OP posts:
HackerFucker22 · 13/11/2015 07:02

Why do you not sleep? How old are kids? How often are you doing overnight?

Original poster
childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 07:08

Children are 3 and 1. I do sleep a bit but I just find it really hard to switch off. I do overnight probably about once a month on average. I should also mention, the parents are always very late coming home the day after an overnight which also tests my patience.

OP posts:
Liltymop · 13/11/2015 07:52

Op, the law was clarified earlier this year on working overnights, what it means and when you MUST be paid for it. Check it out. It was specifically aimed at domestic workers, carers, nannies etc. I can't remember details but was something like, if you can't leave the house, can't drink, can't go visit friends in the hours the person you care for is asleep, then you are working and you must be paid for every minute. YANBU in refusing to work, but maybe the above could help too. Good luck!

coconutpie · 13/11/2015 07:53

Why on earth aren't they paying you for an overnight?! YANBU.

NotMeNotYouNotAnyone · 13/11/2015 07:55

Yanbu to say no more overnights, especially since they're not even paying you! It's like being on call, you can't relax or do what you want to because the children might wake and need you. It's not a case of "they're asleep so you don't get paid". Would they leave them unattended overnight? Of course not! So they should pay you for being the responsible adult overnight.

Pipestheghost · 13/11/2015 07:58

If they want you to be on duty over night then they should pay you for it. Yanbu, they're taking the piss.

FishWithABicycle · 13/11/2015 07:59

Absolutely you should be paid for overnight. If the parents aren't there you are working, you are not free to do as you choose so you are working. It might be reasonable for the pay to reduce to minimum wage for the parts of the night when you are actually asleep but they are utterly taking the piss to expect you to be on duty for free just because the kids are asleep.

Say no to all overnights for 2-3 months then if you choose to start to say yes then only once a month if paid for every hour they are out of the house.

confusedandemployed · 13/11/2015 08:00

Yep, what Liltymop says. Your employers are taking the piss - although, granted, they may not have heard about the law change. Ignorance is no defence though.

Original poster
childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 08:02

Well that is obviously how I feel about it, but from their point of view, I think they just think once they're asleep it's no different to any other evening/night for me because I live here. A few times I have asked to be paid and then every time I get annoyed that I haven't been. I'm not assertive enough to demand money so I do think it will be easier to just say no to overnights full stop. I'm not expecting hundreds of pounds - even 20 quid would be nice just to show that it is an inconvenience for me!

But at the same time, if I refuse to do it, they will get family to come from a long way away to do it, and it's not fair on them either! So then I just feel bad being in the house with another adult struggling with it.

OP posts:
Original poster
childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 08:03

Thank you for the legal info by the way, I hadn't heard about that.

OP posts:
MillionToOneChances · 13/11/2015 08:16

I'm not sure it's as simple as you being entitled to NMW as you live there so your accommodation is provided. (Here's the ACAS brief about the law referred to: m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4658 )

To my mind, the piss-take here is that you're not paid while the kids are asleep but you're awake and babysitting. Your employers might reasonably hope that you'd suck up not being paid while you sleep (unless any of the children is prone to waking in the night?), but to not pay you once they're in bed - when you're responsible and can't leave the house - is indefensible.

I know you're worried you can't be assertive enough to ask for money, but I think it would be much better to politely explain the terms under which you'd be willing to do the work than to just refuse point blank. Refusing without explanation would probably cause offence. If you tell them how much your services would cost and they choose not to pay, that's reasonable from both sides.

MillionToOneChances · 13/11/2015 08:16

Reasonable provided they get someone else to stay overnight, I mean!

Ilikedmyoldusernamebetter · 13/11/2015 08:18

YANBU at all and your employers are being VU to just expect you to do it and doubly so not to pay you. Overnight childminders charge quite a lot (I was asked to do it almost a decade ago and looked into what to charge, though I never ended up doing it - from memory standard would be something along the lines of hourly rate until children are asleep or sometimes until a set fairly late time, something like 10pm, and then a set overnight fee of about 30 pounds for the sleeping hours, then hourly rate again when the child wakes in the morning) ... you are doing exactly the same job doing overnight duty as a nanny!

Sounds like a difficult situation pushing this with your employers - you could actually almost certainly take time in lieu if they back you into a corner over doing an overnight and don't pay you... A day off for each night you work - see how they respond to that suggestion!

Original poster
childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 08:19

Even when the baby was tiny and waking all night I didn't get paid! I can't see they'd fork out now they both sleep through.

OP posts:
goodnessgraciousgoudaoriginal · 13/11/2015 08:22

I think you are being a bit soft to be honest.

These parents would not be able to just "not pay" an overnight creche, or even a nanny through an agency.

To pussy foot around with "oh but I can see they work so hard" is total nonsense!

I know it must be hard when you live with a family, but you are being taken advantage of. If the law says that you need to be paid (and of course you do - you are the sole adult responsible for them overnight. It's not like your pay is suspended when they nap during the day is it?), then they need to pay you.

You need to (and I mean this kindly), grow a pair, print out the legislation, and sit down with them. If they can't afford to pay you, then they have to come up with alternative arrangements. If people couldn't afford to send their kid to a creche five days a week, they don't pay for four and just expect the creche to do the fifth day for free - and the creche certainly doesn't wrong it's hands about the parents having to work something else out!

Original poster
childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 08:22

They do give me TOIL if I work extra daytime hours. Well, they give me the choice of TOIL or pay but I know it's easier for them for me to have time off later so I normally choose that. But for example on this occasion, I'm being given 6 hours TOIL which is for the extra 6 daytime hours I'm doing, and nothing to show for being here overnight. I'm getting so cross about it inside but I'm so rubbish at expressing that to them.

OP posts:
hebihebi · 13/11/2015 08:24

childcarequestions Fri 13-Nov-15 08:02:38
if I refuse to do it, they will get family to come from a long way away to do it, and it's not fair on them either! So then I just feel bad being in the house with another adult struggling with it.

It's not your problem though, so don't feel bad. What do you want? Do you want to do no overnights? Or do you just want to get paid for doing overnights? You are entitled to do either so get your mind straight before talking to them.

Original poster
childcarequestions · 13/11/2015 08:24

goodness I completely agree, and you are right. I just find it so difficult having conversations like this and then still living here. It would be so much easier if I could talk to them and leave my place of work until I'm back on duty. Perhaps live-out is better suited to me.

OP posts:
Ilikedmyoldusernamebetter · 13/11/2015 08:28

Do they treat you well otherwise or do they push their luck and impose on you generally?

I agree with goodnessgracious - you are being far too soft ... if they were a bit short of money one month would you accept not being paid at all? Not paying you for the bits of your work they don't want to is the same thing!

Not that it really makes any difference as they need to pay you and accept that if you say no to something that isn't in your contract that means no, but are they both working nights when you do night duties, or do they treat themselves to a social/ romantic night away together at your expense every month? If its not essential for work and they can't afford to pay you to babysit for the whole night, then the answer is they don't go (like everyone else who doesn't have a spare 60 pounds or so to pay an overnight babysitter for a night every month).

QueenLaBeefah · 13/11/2015 08:31

They are taking the piss. Start looking for another job. IMO puss taker employees only get worse.

Baconyum · 13/11/2015 08:34

Are you very young?

You really do need to toughen up. Toil or payment is what suits you not them. And definitely not on them not paying you for overnights. I've been a nanny and some families/couples will try it on!

You're a professional and your time is worth payment. Stop letting them get away with this you're saving them a fortune and a lot of inconvenience!

Do you get annual leave? Meals?

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