To think sexist phrases should be edited out of modern novels by well-known authors from well-known publishers?

[AnnaLP]

Just finished reading Frederick Forsyth's "The Kill List" (really enjoyed it) and at the end is a short story "The Veteran", which also seemed like a good read until about 30 pages in where 3 sexist comments pop up in the space of 2 pages:

"She blushed a fetching pink..."
"The pretty and bright WPC...."
".... was very bright and very pretty..."

They are just so unnecessary to the story - they add nothing of value and just demean the female characters they refer to. If I were an editor I would have just removed them - or AIBU?

I really hate Burt Bacharach's 'Wives and 'Lovers'

And I'm not mad on Dufryn Vigilate Squad by Goldie Lookin Chain - hence I don't listen to it.

As a matter of interest, OP, what is your view on fireworks for home use?

My son is reading FF right now and I've been talking to him about the author's social background and politics. I can't get too worked up over this despite not liking FF's viewpoint myself. Don't read any Ian Fleming OP!

As for censorship - no. Really?

Frederick Forsyth was Mrs Thatcher's favourite author!!

You are not being unreasonable to not want sexism in the books your read, but it is not wise to want the sexism edited out.
Do you really want to give your money to sexist authors?

Why don't you just buy books by authors who aren't sexist jerks? You could even support less well known female authors by buying their books!

www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/d7bel/sexist_racist_neocon_scribe_bestselling_thriller/

YABU.

Yabu

scremers in particular is right and put it v well.

I think we need the sexism and other unacceptable forms of prejudice in old novels to understand how people thought at the time. We learn alot about the past that way (OK 2001/is not far into the past but will be at some point).

Jeanne your post is also brilliant.

YABU. I cannot abide this idea that some reactionaries have that they can cleanse out all that does not please them or fit into their very narrow and inward looking agendas.
What exactly is your thinking on this OP? Where should it all end? Should there be a book of 'rules which must be obeyed at all times'? What about people who offend - should they be rubbed out?
I cannot tell you how unreasonable you sound - have a word with yourself ffs and please don't go round spouting this in public - you'll embarrass yourself awfully!

I'm going to go against the grain a bit and suggest that, yes, during the publication process the editor could have pulled FF up for trite, shallow and sexist description (especially if he repeated bright and pretty twice in a short story, FFS!).

In fact, maybe the editor did pull him up, who knows?

But he wrote it, he wants it in his story, so it stands.

Now of course, you are not wrong to think 'FF is a sexist and pretty shit at describing women so I'm probably not going to read any of his books again.'

But a sort of retrospective editing process wouldn't really be the right thing to do.

Shall we go back to the 30's and burn all the books which are not PC, or contain sexist remarks ( according to some). I have not read the book and do not know the context, but bright might refer to her demeanour. Bright as opposed to glum and not bright as opposed to unintelligent.
What about all the books with word gay in them meaning happy? Should we get the censor to go through them all with a black pen?

The 30's in Germany

The OP isn't advocating censorship; she's wondering if, in the initial editing phase of a novel - which is a collaborative process between editor and author - a wise editor would say "Look Freddy, old boy, you're coming across as a bit of a chauvinist here." Maybe he did, and FF was having none of it; or maybe he (or she) knew that FF's particular style is part of the reason he sells. Editing decisions are usually business ones.
Anyway, not much you can - or should - do about it once the book's been published. Except maybe read something else.

YABU. YABU YABU YABU YABU. I cannot say it enough really.

Frankly, your examples are not even sexist, except maybe for your heightened sensitivity.
If editors and publishers have this kind of ridiculously PC input on books, you can be sure that we are in for a long line of bland and characterless literature in the future. I will applaud any attempts at self-publishing if that happens, and thankfully Internet is a fantastic tool for that.

Do everyone a favour and stick to modern PC rubbish. Why do you think you have the right to alter classic novels from the past. Do you have any idea what censorship to that degree means, obviously not.

a wise editor would say "Look Freddy, old boy, you're coming across as a bit of a chauvinist here." Maybe he did, and FF was having none of it; or maybe he (or she) knew that FF's particular style is part of the reason he sells. Editing decisions are usually business ones.

YY. As Cel says.

Authors have egos that do not always take kindly to criticism and will often refuse to have their words edited. I would be quite inclined to believe that FF in 2001 was one of them! A bestselling author of his time, quite a lot of clout - if he wanted to carry on writing sexist tripe and the publisher wanted to carry on publishing it because lots of people wanted to carry on reading it, then whilst you might not like it, it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

The solution is 1) don't read it or 2) read it and discuss how outdated his ideas seemed to be for 2001 with your DD or whoever.

YABU also I can't get worked up about She blushed a fetching pink

I have been guilty of exiting the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe for DD so that father Christmas says to Susan and Lucy "you are not to be in the battle because I have more important things for you to do" rather than "wars are ugly when women fight", but I'm not saying the publishers should change the book.

In the film I think that had him say " wars are ugly things".

I want all references to broccoli edited out of all cook books. I can't stand the stuff and find it offensive.

I think YABU too. A few years back I bought from Tesco/Asda (cannot recall exactly) The Magic Faraway Tree by Enid Blyton. The names Dick and Fanny had been changed to Jack and Franny. I was so cross I threw the book away.

I recall very well giggling at those names too, but it meant that my parents explained to me that they were common names 'back then and what they were the nicknames for. It starts a discussion about 'how things change'. I was maybe 9 years old? It is a valuable discussion to have.... thing change. Society changes... hopefully usually for the better.

Please people - don't act as if this is about old novels. It is right there in the title that it's about MODERN novels.
This is, therefore, not a call to censor classics to be politically correct.

And Anna has a point, sexism is disgusting. I just don't think it should be removed to make an author look better than he is.
If he is not clever enough to ask someone to remove his offensive descriptions, why force him?

@Haydee: I would do that with Lewis' books, too (he is dead and doesn't profit from the sales anymore), but I'd recommend going over his writing and changeing some other things too, while you are at it. This excellent deconstruction could help: www.anamardoll.com/2011/02/narnia-narnia-deconstruction-index-post.html

This is the height of Special Snowflakedom.