DDs teacher doesn't believe in her SN

[hotlinesling]

DD is 4. She's under assessment for ASC and has a review next month. She has a host of sensory processing issues, speech delay and complex needs regarding eating, sleeping and routines. She attends a local authority nursery school (only just 4) so has a proper teacher. I met with her teacher before she started, explaining her needs and making clear the suspected diagnosis. DDs paediatrician gave me the CAST questionnaire to complete and one for her teacher, too. Her teacher has not answered the questions, she's simply written: 'hotlineslings dd presents as a normal 4 year old.'

DD doesn't play with any other children at nursery. She doesn't talk to anyone. She won't use the toilet, have a snack or drink. She won't play outside. She will do as she's asked by teachers to avoid confrontation. She is anxious and scratches herself until she bleeds. She is withdrawn after nursery and isn't enjoying it at all. I feel like I'm doing the wrong thing by sending her if her teacher isn't supportive and DD isn't happy. I want to approach this with her teacher this week but am unsure how. Aibu to be annoyed that her teacher refused to complete the questionnaire properly?

Have to admit although I think it is worth having a firm chat with higher staff in the morn, I agree with sleep post. Don't delay, most important thing is that your child is happy.
You might worry that she wouldn't be happier somewhere else but you need to try xx

Hi. I have a 4 year old in reception with suspected ASD (we have to wait 9 mo this for the full assessment). Her 2nd nursery flagged their suspicions, accommodated and supported her, brought in the LA Senco and were really helpful and positive. Her new school is doing a great job with her, although a bit vaguer on things like IEPs so far.

Move! Our first nursery was a disaster. Moving was the best thing we did. Is there no sure start nursery near you?

Find out who the Governor is for SEND. There should be one. Write to them if you continue to find yourself coming against brick walls.

Please move your child. There is a huge range of quality when it comes to nurseries. I am in the US but its the same issue here. I called my coordinator and the ladies who did the assessment, one of which had previously worked in my town as a speech therapist, and they gave me a list of 3 places they thought would be suitable.

The fact that she can't be bothered to fill out the forms properly shows her to unprofessional and I would be using that as your reason for pulling out your child with immediate effect (once you have found a new place) so you are not stuck waiting 30-60 days. We had DS's parent meeting this morning and his file is an inch thick with all the paperwork they have completed to document the teachers goals, actions and accomplishments of DS. It is all clearly documented and shared with the staff working for the developmental paediatrician on a monthly basis via email. I can't fault DS teachers and I know they care deeply about his development.

Often the 'best' settings aren't that good for children with SNs. Often they get to be the 'best' because they have been uncooperative towards children with SNs, meaning their parents move them, and then the setting only has children who do as they are told and would fly academically even if they were taught by a goat.

It's absolutely unacceptable and unprofessional for a teacher to refuse to complete an assessment form and to write that on it. She is not the gatekeeper for whether a child gets a diagnosis.

The process requires clear information to be gathered from different sources. Had she worked through the form honestly it might have made her more aware too of why you are going through this process.

I would take this higher. It's part of her job to do this without bias. All she has to do is report on behaviours she sees, not diagnose as she's certainly not qualified to do so. I'm appalled by this, it's either very lazy or judgemental.

Often the 'best' settings aren't that good for children with SNs. Often they get to be the 'best' because they have been uncooperative towards children with SNs, meaning their parents move them, and then the setting only has children who do as they are told and would fly academically even if they were taught by a goat.

This.

QTS. 20+ years experience don't necessarily mean anything good for your child. If this particular teacher is the type who would imagine that an ASC might be 'an over anxious parent' then you are going to be fighting a losing battle. Get out of there.

This happened to one of my kids 15 years ago, it obstructed his dx and everything else that goes along with it for quite some time.

I had thought this practise had died out now.

Can you go back to her perhaps via her boss and point out she has not compleated the form as required?

I agree with PPs that you should move her. When I was training to be a teacher my first placement was in a school renowned for being the worst in its borough. It was recently out of special measures and overall exam results were poor. The care and support for students with SEN remains the best I have ever seen and my outstanding school could definitely learn lessons from them. We have 1,000 pupils at our school and only 2 with a statement (or the new equivalent). In my placement school I had 9 pupils with a statement in one Y8 class of 16. They just had a wealth of experience with SEN that my school just doesn't. Their TAs were more knowledgeable about SEN than the SENCO at my school. Just because a school is better by reputation doesn't mean it's the right place for your child.

Just a quick thought for you to put to her, does she understand that asd presentation in girls is very different to boys? I don't have a reference to hand but if you google you should find easily enough a list of how girls present, our DD was a head down child till she couldnt cope any longer then exploded and it wasn't pretty to see

Tbh this teacher is showing her lack of knowledge and needs to go read about female autism, sadly you are going to meet this problem a lot

I would also suggest you make an appointment with head and senco as the likelihood is there won't be time to discuss this fully at a parents evening.

Take along any paperwork you have and do your research first. There is a thing called the Local Offer which all LEAs must having place regarding provision for children with SEN. Your nursery should have it's own policy on this as well as one on additional needs in general.

When was the form filled in by the teacher? Giving her the benefit of the doubt if it was early in the term many children new to the environment may have presented with similar behaviour but by now they will have settled and the differences should be apparent so if it's recent or her attitude is unchanged then this definitely needs dealing with very firmly.

Best of luck .

I have only once, in all my years teaching, come across a parents who wanted a SN diagnosis when non were present (she stupidly told me to fill out the questionnaire as if her dd had ADHD so she could get carers allowance and stay at home!)

I filled it in true to the child and had a quiet word with the senco and we psych. I would never dream of refusing to fill in sn paperwork and declare a child typical! That's not my job!

I would be livid if I were you. Definitely think about moving her, she is not going to be supported there even if you get a dx

"Often the 'best' settings aren't that good for children with SNs. Often they get to be the 'best' because they have been uncooperative towards children with SNs, meaning their parents move them, and then the setting only has children who do as they are told and would fly academically even if they were taught by a goat".

This and in spades.

The person who summarily dismissed your DD ought to leave teaching; such people cause a hell of a lot of damage.

Her needs are simply not being met and will never be met by this nursery.

Verbal promises made to you mean and have meant nothing. There is no support because they simply cannot or equally will not give it. Also children with additional needs who are very compliant tend to be ignored within a class setting and she has gone unnoticed. Unless there is something like an EHCP (education, health and care plan; this is legally binding) in place support offered will be very limited.

Your DD needs to be moved and asap. I would also argue that even with an EHCP in place this particular establishment still would fail her. I would also post on the Special Needs; Children's forum on this website as they could also help you further and apply directly to the LEA for an EHCP for your DD. IPSEA's website is helpful in this respect www.ipsea.org.uk

You need to think longer term as well, she will not always be at nursery. She will need an EHCP.

The fact that is the "best setting" locally doesn't mean that it is the right place for your DD, actually, I would go as far as aaying that it is often the case that schools in the more deprived areas are better prepared to deal with particular issues.

DS had a full diagnose by a very reputed educational psychologist, the assessment lasted more than 6 hours and the report was 18 pages long, yet the headteacher of his "very good" school refused to accept it saying that he would be rich if he had taken a pound for every dyslexia report he got and dismissed his disability as a "boy's thing they grow out off"

I remember her teacher filling the forms for the assesment, saying that DS was aloof, uncooperative and not particularly bright. I eventually moved him to another school, where they bothered to read the report and adapt things a bit to make it easier for DS to keep to task. He was classed as gifted and talented within 6 months.

Incidentally, people commented that DS' new school wouldn't be good considering his dyslexia and delays in writing, as there were many children there whose first language was not English. Incidentally, that meant the school had a lot of experience in bringing children up to speed, so DS managed to move up 5 sub levels in a single year.

BTW, the fact that her teacher has 20 years experience is not a proof that they should know everything. My mother was a headteacher for 20 years, and just retired after 40 years in service, yet she was the one that found it more difficult to accept that DN has autism, she really fought the diagnose toth and nail even when DN's autism is far from being mild.

Looking at DN, I remember a very similar boy in my class when I was at the school were she worked. She taught that boy for three years but always blamed his behaviour on the parents not paying attention to him. In her opinion, he couldn't talk and was so violent because he spend more time with the family dogs than his parents. WTF?

I wonder how some teachers claim to know what goes on in homes so well.

What is the best setting for one child won't be for another. I would stop her going immediately. Also, have you gone from 0 days a week to 5 straight away? That might have had an effect on your DD, but regardlesa of the changes to her routine, I would not want her there by the sounds of things. We sent our son to the local place that came highly recommended. He hated it. We saw why - too much discipline, boring activities etc., and we moved him to somewhere with a more laidback outdoorsy approach. He loves it, but at nealy 4 does 1.5 days and finds the 10-4 day very long. We are just trying to gear him up for school a bit though. He doesn't have SEN as far as I am aware. He still remembers how he didn't like the first place (he was 2.5) and we regret ever sending him.

To play devils advocate the teacher jas miles more experience with 4 year olds than the average parent and hence better able to judge what is normal and what isn't

She's not required to 'make a judgement' though. The form asks for information on how a pupil functions, not an opinion on it.

I can't believe she simply refused to complete the assessment. I would go straight to the head personally, there is no coming back from that.

Stop thinking it's the best setting locally - it's crap for your dd!

Honestly - you'll be having battles like this all through her education. Save yourself some much need sanity and move her. I have a dd who went to 'the best setting' at 4yo. dd had the receptive language skills of an 18mo, and poor social skills. Her teacher was crap and even under direct instruction of SALT the teacher (v experienced) was useless and unhelpful. I regret sending dd there. Even if your SENCO is Mr Tumble and even if you have a comprehensive IEP you'll get nowhere. From now on the only people of any use are those who can support your dd. You may find a setting that has more SEN kids is miles better. Welcome to the world of SEN - it's shit. Apply for an EHCP today.

That's not how assessment of SN works Brioche. A teacher isn't qualified to give their opinion or judgement. She was asked to make observations which a qualified professional would then interpret.

Ps my dd has ASD.

Please get ready to play the long game, OP. And I mean that kindly. Xx