...to be upset about her termination?

[princesspineapple]

I'm 21 weeks pregnant, and one of my best friends has just had a termination.
I'm all for pro-choice and it's her body etc etc... But she has basically used this as contraception (they've not used any protection for a year) and I don't really agree with that.
Putting aside my (and everyone's) feelings about her pregnancy choices... AIBU to be upset that she turned to me first in her "time of need"?
I've had MCs in the past, and am over the moon to be pregnant... So am finding it really hard to support her when she says things like "well it's only pea sized" when my little pea is now wriggling away in my belly!
Am I being a bit of an over-emotional pregnant lady and need to buck up and be a better friend, or is she actually being a cow?

[PiperChapstick]

See Starling like you I've always been pro-choice but having a DD has made me even more so. Knowing how wonderful and how hard being a parent is, I strongly believe babies should come into this world wanted, loved and cherished by those bring them in. Someone who is not prepared to do that should not be a parent. Every baby should be as loved as all of our babies are

[SurlyCue]

Today 21:12 MySordidCakeSecret

surly who are you ranting at?

Those who keep referring to abortion being used as contraception.

[Sallystyle]

Can you explain why you think it is immoral? Not saying you shouldn't feel that way but i am interested in the logic behind it.

I have never met or heard of anyone who has had multiple terminations instead of using bc. Does that actually happen all that often? I can't imagine anyone making the choice of going through multiple terminations instead of just going on bc.

You asked me a really good question and to be honest, I'm not actually sure I have an answer. I haven't really thought about it much. I guess I see pregnancy as the beginning of a life and it makes me a bit sad to think of someone ending multiple pregnancies when they could have just used bc.

I had two bc failures and was booked in for a termination and changed my mind at the last moment and if I was to fall pregnant again I would definitely terminate at this moment in my life, but if someone was to have multiple terminations then I would see that as a quite blasé attitude. But then again, I would rather people terminate than have a child they don't want.

I'm going to think about that question more.

[MySordidCakeSecret]

you'd think there was nothing wrong with a woman having multiple abortions due to being careless about contraception, not only risking her own health and using nhs resources but each time a life has been ended?

i know everyone has different opinions, and i support women's right to have an abortion (although i think the limit should be lowered significantly) but i think we have a responsibility to make that the last resort and take preventative actions such as easily available contraception.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Ok I'll give my story... I was 17 and got pregnant by mistake... We were using condoms then stopped and I was naive about contraception. I didn't expect to get pregnant but had zero support from family (mum) who told me to get an abortion or my life would be ruined... I had a job etc. I wasn't in a serious relationship but couldn't envisage being a single mother. I did not want a termination. My 2 best friends were shocked when I got pregnant and went to the first hospital appointment with me.

My best friend got pregnant about 6 months to a year later and had 2 sons about 2 years apart. I almost felt when she was pregnant that she was rubbing it in my face but maybe I was oversensitive. She was nice to me during this period but she always said "wait til you get pregnant re labour pains etc" and she had a tough council flat living. She got engaged to the childrens' dad but ended the relationship when the youngest was 3. Before she ended the relationship she got pregnant didn't want the baby and took an abortion pill. She had also converted to Catholicism in the meantime. I have to say when she had her abortion I felt a bit smug as she had always told me she would never ever have an abortion in her life, yet she'd taken the abortion pill, so to my mind this was the same as my medical operation. I didn't like feeling smug but she'd easily I'd felt spoke down to me (when I had my operation she said it was wrong on one hand but that I wouldn't cope with a baby and I had my job (office) to think of).

In your case - your friend not using contraception - well your friend could have been hoping for a baby and that the father would come round, you really don't know her true reasons why she's had a termination.

I think you should support her in her decision and not take it personally re your decision.

[MySordidCakeSecret]

disclaimer I know that in extraordinary circumstances such as severely unwell babies thata late abortion can be advised - that is obviously rare circumstance in which medical professionals best advise.

My comment refers to when women decide they don't want to continue the pregnancy.

[WoodHeaven]

I don't think this situation is about being pro choice or not tbh.

You have a woman who has had a termination and need to get her head around it. So asks many questions abou recovery time, talks about how she would like to be back at work (ie back to normality) and how it was just a pea/a few cells ((making the act look more innocent and wo major impact).

On the other side, there is a woman who has had a few miscarriages at least one of which her friend knows about) and is now pregnant (with all the worries that can come with being pregnant after a few miscarriages).

Now is it REALLY a good idea to ask the woman who is pregnant to support the one who has had a mscarriage???

Serioulsy, it is obvious OP that you are not the right person. It doesn't say anything abut you or about her or about your respective choices. It's just that your own life circumstances makes you the wrong person to help.
It does NOT make you a crap friend to say that.
And I do wonder why she is turning to you and not towards your mutual friend who has had aan abortion too.
You don't have to accept anything and everythiung because 'she is your friend'.

[PiperChapstick]

Super thank you for putting the situation in another light, people forget we're talking about fellow humans here. And you're right re those who say" I would never have one" - we don't know what's down the road for us and I don't think anyone ever expects to actually have a termination

[BestZebbie]

In my opinion
YANBU to be upset about her termination, because that is the emotional reaction you had - quite understandably given a history of MC and a current pregnancy.
YWBU if you said or did anything to try and express your hurt/anger/upset/disapproval/etc to the other woman, because it is not about you, it is about her. Also, you have actively offered her your support, so it would be harsh to U-turn on that.
However, you aren't actually obliged to offer support if it harms you to do so - if you are finding it harder to discuss the situation than you expected for whatever reason, then YANBU to apologise and say that and then not discuss details any further, whilst still generally wishing your friend well with her chosen path.

[SurlyCue]

you'd think there was nothing wrong with a woman having multiple abortions due to being careless about contraception

No

not only risking her own health and using nhs resources

Many many things happen on a daily basis that are not last resorts that use NHS resources and risk a person's health. So many. Many cost far more than abortion. And abortion actually saves the NHS at the very least, the cost of maternity care, post natal care, infant vaccinations, dental care and any other care that potential child would go on to need throughout its life. Abortion saws the NHS fucking bucketloads of money. Think about it.

but each time a life has been ended?

A potential life.

[HPsauciness]

GigiB I think you have posted in the wrong thread! Hope you can start in another thread and get some good advice.

[Potatoface2]

gawd....you can be pro choice.....but it doesnt mean you would choose to do it.....im all for women wanting an abortion if thats what they want....but it doesnt mean that i would go down that route.....OP...your friend was being insensative NOT YOU!

[stoppingbywoods]

Pro-choice certainly can have nuances in meaning and can refer to a tendency to be 'pro-choice in certain contexts and within a specific value system'. If faced with an extreme example, most pro-choice supporters would probably turn out to hold this view. But wherever you stand in this debate, none of us own the terms.

Not that I'm very pro-choice at all, actually - only if the health of the mother is genuinely at risk.

OP, I agree that she was crashingly insensitive and self-absorbed to turn to you. Of course it's personal to you at the moment. I hope you knew beforehand that she was like this, would be rather a disappointment otherwise.

[MySordidCakeSecret]

it's not a potential life if there was a heartbeat imo.

[WitchWay]

Personal feelings regarding termination are hugely variable & very individual.

Before I ever became pregnant, I knew I could have a TOP if I became pregnant by accident. I shagged around, played fast & loose & got away with it.

Once I conceived DS I knew I would have a TOP if the tests came back with anything dodgy (of course normal tests mean the baby will be perfect ). Blood tests were within acceptable limits & I didn't take it further.

Once I'd had DS (a perfect baby, thank goodness, & now a perfectly obnoxious teenager ) I knew I would struggle to be put in any situation where I had to make a decision about a pregnancy, but probably would have opted for testing. As it happens I never conceived again.

[WitchWay]

FWIW your friend is being selfish & inconsiderate

[Leavingsosoon]

Pro choice simply means that you are in favour of - pro - a woman making her own choice.

On some occasions that choice may be 'to go ahead with the pregnancy'. Forced termination is every bit as heartless and cruel as forcing a woman to proceed with a pregnancy she does not want.

Being judgemental about how or why someone gets to that point is one thing, but it is where people in effect say or imply that because they are not 'worthy' - because the reasons for the termination are flaky or they were careless with contraception - that the punishment should be to not have access to a termination that I am very uncomfortable with indeed.

[StarlingMurmuration]

Piper, I entirely agree with you, but I just find it upsetting. I think my views on when life begins have been altered by my ultrasound scans. I still think abortion should be freely and readily available on demand.

[SurlyCue]

"it's not a potential life if there was a heartbeat imo"

Exactly, IYO. It isnt fact.

[ConsciousPilot]

I had an abortion followed many years later by four children. I am now anti-abortion and feel the 24 wk limit is an absolute abomination. I would not be able to support a friend through this whilst I myself was pregnant, not if she had wilfully got herself into that state. She is being massively insensitive to you.

YANBU.

[ConsciousPilot]

Try telling the thousands of distraught mumsnetters who lose their babies at eight weeks that 'it's not a life'.

Just because you are pro-choice doesn't mean you can ignore what is going on in the womb at eight weeks.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Piper exactly - no one ever knows what decisions you may make... Or be forced to make.

All of us are fellow humans and foetuses potential humans too. But decisions and circumstance are a whole different kettle of fish in my opinion.

[Leavingsosoon]

I certainly couldn't ignore it: it was making me very ill.

So following this to its logical conclusion, Bad Bad Women who Wilfully Get Pregnant should be made to continue with their pregnancies and have the child - because that'll teach the sluts a lesson, won't it?

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

I had an abortion followed many years later by four children. I am now anti-abortion and feel the 24 wk limit is an absolute abomination.

So you think that you should have been forced in to continuing that first pregnancy? Would have been happy to have that choice taken away from you at the time?

[ConsciousPilot]

So many women and men don't give a shit about human life. It starts in the womb and ends in our treatment of the elderly.