To wish my sister would stop trying to force her child to be an extrovert

[DieRosen]

My 16 year old niece is a quiet girl, very musical, and plays with a youth orchestra. The orchestra rehearses one night a week and on Saturday afternoons. My niece loves it and is very friendly with two of the other members. They sometimes go to concerts on a Friday or Saturday evening and often call to each others houses to watch DVDs.

However my DSis is always complaining to me that she's too serious for her age, should be going to parties and discos, more interested in make up etc. DSis is a very outgoing person and as a teenager was a real party girl, hung around with a big gang in school, and was never at home on a Saturday night. She used to slag me off because I was more of an introvert, had a small circle of friends (including a couple of my cousins) and just didn't like parties or hanging around the park at night in a big gang.

My niece seems perfectly happy and well adjusted (and does occasionally go to discos with school friends) and I hate to see my sister nagging her to go out more or commenting, in front of me, about the fact that she's 'lolling around the house on a weekend night when everyone else is out enjoying themselves'.

AIBU to think it's wrong and quiet cruel to try and force an introvert to become an extrovert?

Where did that rogue apostrophe come from?

Oh and thanks srsly as well. You sound like a sensitive parent.

i do think it's hard for introverts and extroverts to "get" each other sometimes

DH, DD1 and I are all introverts. when we get in from work/school, we all disappear for 15 minutes to re-charge and absorb the quiet before starting our evenings.

Or we would, but someone has to spend time with extrovert dd2 who needs to gas away 19 to the dozen about everything she's done that day. It's quite hard TBH. And at weekends, when the three of us want to curl up with a book, dd2 constantly asks where we'll be going and who we'll be seeing. your sister probably genuinely worries about her daughter's happiness, in the same way that I worry that dd2 is a hyperactive gobshite, when school assure me she's just a jolly extrovert.

YANBU. I'd love a teenager like this rather than having to worry because they are smoking/drinking/having underage sex etc. Your sister is an idiot. Your poor DN is going to think there is something wrong with her and that her own mother doesn't love her for who she is.

my sister just takes the attitude that, as I was the same growing up, what would I know.

Uncanny. I had and still have the same. I actually have a wider circle of friends and interests than my sister and am more outgoing. She thinks I'm socially awkward because I used to stay in and do my homework 30 years ago

srslylikeomg hits it on the head about some extroverts actually being quite insecure and terrified of not fitting in.

I agree that extroverts and introverts often find each other hard to understand.

But I think introverted people are so often looked on as the 'odd men out' or as people who 'need' to become more extroverted, by the more outgoing members of society.

Introverted people rarely go around trying to make extroverts behave more quietly, or have fewer but closer friends, or generally feel a but guilty for just being who they are.

*I think I need to work on not doing the same to my DD: i am always on at her to say hello brightly to her friends (she is 5) and feel panicked if she says she played by herself at lunchtime."

this is me. must stop. "who did you sit next to on the coach?" "on your own, why?" as i panic panic

Your DN sounds fine and your DSis is being foolish, so YANBU

Loads and loads of parents do this in one way or another though - I have a sister who is also trying to re-live her childhood through her DD, with tweaks to make it exactly how she wanted it, and no particular interest in whether its what her DD wants (her DD is quite passive/ laid back and seems to go along with it without either much enthusiasm or complaint.) My parents did it too to a degree, more interest in what we should want than in individual tastes and preferences.

Lots of parents do it, whether its trying to get their child into their sport, to learn their instrument or one they wish they'd learned, or into whatever other hobby/ passion... or to get them to do things they wish they'd been allowed/ able to do as a child or teen regardless of the actual DC's interests and personality. Trying to get them to be a party animal is an odd one but a version of the same thing...

Orchestras, and musical activities are a great way to meet like minded people at school and beyond. I'm an introvert too - probably half the population is, but they still meet soul mates and marry them. I met mine (also an introvert) in music A level well over 30 years ago and we're still doing our singing and playing together and separately as good amateurs. I'm sure your niece will be fine. (We both hated "discos" and nightclubs. Horrid noisy places where you can't talk.)

It's not an introvert vs extrovert thing. I am far from introverted but I also like my own company and am confident in my choices.

I went to the cinema on my own last week because none of my friends wanted to see the film. My sister would never do that because she would think that was billy no-mates and horribly embarrassing. So she'd miss it.

She's probably only pretending to go to discos to keep your sister off her back, she'll be changing clothes in the toilets and sneaking off to the library

Interesting thread. DH is very much an introvert and I think our eldest is a bit like him. He is always panicking when he hears she hasn't sat next to a friend at lunch, or isn't invited to a birthday party etc. He says it is because he hated being shy at school and wished he had been more confident, outgoing etc and he just wants DD to NOT be like him!

I was terribly shy as a child/teen but when I hit my 20s, I turned into a gabby abby and haven't stopped talking since.....

I think my sister just takes the attitude that, as I was the same growing up, what would I know.

But does she not accept that you went on to have a happy life and have the friends you want, and it would be fine for your niece to end up the same? Have you had a discussion with her about that?

Actually that is a very good point, Limited. I did a personality test thingie once and came out as a definite introvert - even though I am actually very sociable and like being with other people. However I also like my own company and pottering around on my own, so I think it probably is less of an 'introvert vs extrovert' issue. I also have no problem going to the cinema on my own.

But does she not accept that you went on to have a happy life and have the friends you want, and it would be fine for your niece to end up the same? Have you had a discussion with her about that?

I'm not sure that's a good thread to pull on Gruntled; it might turn out that the op's sister doesn't think much of op's life and will come out with gems like 'Well I don't want her to have a life like YOU'......

Best to steer clear of putting the sister on the spot like that, I think.

By the way op, I think you and your niece sound just fine (and happy with yourselves, which is beyond measure).

Not read it myself, but the book "Quiet: The power of introverts..." by Susan Cain gets recommended on here a lot I think, maybe you could get her a copy!

To be honest I suspect my dsis still disapproves of my social life. I have a good group of friends and go out quite a bit. But it's mainly for dinners or to the theatre or just meeting a couple of friends in the local for a drink and a catch up.

Dsis is a 'more the merrier' type and still likes to go out with big groups. She also hates restaurants and pubs with 'no atmosphere', ie not particularly crowded, no music playing, no 'in' crowd at another table etc.

Re the 'introvert v extrovert', I don't think introvert means few friends, just a dislike of having very little time to yourself, or large noisy occasions where you have to shout to be heard.

The introvert v extrovert thing is definitely not about Friends / interests but about how you recharge. Introverts recharge by time alone. Extroverts recharge by time with others. And it's not necessarily black and white either, it's a preference.

In personality testing I'm a definite extrovert but there are certainly times (like on a train / plane journey) where of people waved to chat I'd quite cheerfully punch them if it would stop them interfering in my alone time!

There are also other preferences in personality testing that will impact on how you react, not just introvert / extrovert

Your niece sounds like an ideal teen! Has interests, friends, knows what she likes, probably has a pretty good sense of who she is - which your idiot sister is trying to erode.

Playing an instrument in an orchestra will stand her in good stead for life. It's something she can do at any stage, almost anywhere, as a route to an instant social life. I so wish I'd carried on with an orchestral instrument, rather than just piano, for this reason.

She's far from being a friendless wallflower. She's also far from being the vapid, insecure extrovert, needing constant external affirmation, that your sister seems to wish she was. Presumably your poor old sister had few if any really close friends growing up, rather a fluid sea of acquaintances with ever-changing loyalties. She's probably jealous of her dd's self-assurance and more solid friendships.

Yes, I know I'm being unfairly rude about extroverts in general there but I feel quite cross with OP's sister in particular and I think for her to understand that others don't envy the self-professed 'in crowd' in the way she imagines they do, would do her good.

I'd be countering with a bit of 'isn't it great the dneice has such strong friendships and interests and isn't driven by insecurity and the fear of being left out, like so many poor teenagers. Gosh I remember how insecure and desparate to be liked you were - I wouldn't wish that on anybody!' Well, I probably wouldn't but it's temtpting.

Like others, I have no doubt that your niece will find all the wildness she likes, when she wants it. I've known lots of quiet teens and 20 year-olds blossom in their mid-20s, once they're really sure who they are, or, if they were already, have found their people.

Maybe say (gently) to your sister that DN is just like you were as a teen, and that you have good friends and are very happy with your life now. Just state it as a fact, not as in a 'I'm happy now, aren't I?' sort of way that seems to elicit her opinion. If she still acts like this, maybe mention that if your mum had said such things to you as a teen then you'd have felt really judged and hurt. That might knock some sense into her.

I'm an introvert. Dh and ds are extroverts. I happen to think that introverts can find life hard unless they're able to re-wire themselves in certain situations. For example speaking in public, contributing to and leading meetings, giving presentations etc are a staple requirement of many office jobs. I've felt hugely uncomfortable at times doing these things but I've had to learn. Likewise, I am forever trying to teach my ds about understanding quieter people, giving people space, not always rushing in, modifying the speed of his mouth to accompany his brain etc. I think pushing people outside of their comfort zone earlier in life can make things easier on them later on when they're forced to confront certain situations that naturally make them feel uncomfortable. Op YANBU to say that people should not be forced down a particular route and that everyone, including your niece, is an individual. However, parents have an obligation to equip their children with lifetime communication skills.

It's not only cruel, it's likely to be ineffective. I was a total introvert as a teenager, spent my time as a teenager playing video games rather than going out and doing whatever it is that extroverts do. My mom wanted to change this. I'm 40, still an introvert, still play video games. My interest in video games led to a career in IT.

My relationship with my mom was strained by her trying to change me. Luckily, in my late teens, she came to the realization that I could have been worse. I might not have spent my time the way she would have wanted, but I didn't get pregnant and didn't use drugs. Our relationship got a lot better when she was able to accept me more for what I was (and am).

Yanbu at all OP. I probably fit into the wild child category as a teenager, but I'd love it if my DC turns out more intelligent serious and introverted than I was. My DH is a v clever introvert so there's every chance!

Just wanted to add, for all my indignation earlier, that setting up your dneice in opposition to her mother, suggesting one way is better, would not be helpful at all. Dneice needs the freedom and support to have shifting friendships and lonely periods as well as happy times - just these need to be understood or accepted on her terms, not judged as perennially inadequate. That will drive her to detest and distance herself from her mother and may make her miserable and actually create some of the social problems her mother fears but which are not currently there.

I have many friends, but I am definitely introverted. Your sis should recognise that having an introverted child is as wonderful as having an extrovert. My parents never have to worry about whether I'll be doing something irresponsible, I am well acquainted with the local police (because I've known them since I was 6 when they used to give me toffees), I do ll the orchestra/choir stuff and my friends are the most lovely, quiet, and caring people ever. They're people I could truly trust to keep me safe if something ever happened.
In fact the only truly rebellious thing I've done is date a man 20 years older than me (and just saying but he's awesome and I adore him). She sould be grateful that she has such a lovely daughter. As long as she's happy and doesn't have any of the problems that so many teenagers have (depression, anxiety disorder, self harm that sort of thing) then what on earth is the matter? You sound like a wonderful aunt, that girl will be very happy to have grown up with you so nearby.