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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

HOPING a phalanx of EWOs are at Gatwick when the flights from Sharm get back

67 replies

BrendaandEddie · 06/11/2015 07:38

All these kids on their educational holidays Wink

OP posts:
pluck · 06/11/2015 09:59

I don't usually accuse others of jealousy...
PMSL. The OP isn't jealous.

SoupDragon, I was just pre-empting the accusation of "jealousy" that gets thrown about at moments like these: "you're jealous of them because they went on a holiday you would have loved to have had were it not for your being a martyr to school rules" sort of thing. Sorry, I must admit it was a bit of MN shorthand!

tiggytape, basically, bribes were being taken in the airport, for people to bypass security? Shock

AlpacaLypse · 06/11/2015 10:09

pluck yes, apparently back in May this british couple were on the way home after a week in Sharm, queues at security were frightful, but one of the security staff approached them and made it clear that for £20 he'd escort them straight through. They completely bypassed all the hand baggage xrays, body scanner bit etc, and so did their hold luggage.

AliciaMayEmory · 06/11/2015 10:11

Ahh, my very first Biscuit

howtorebuild · 06/11/2015 10:17

£20 bribe Shock

MuddhaOfSuburbia · 06/11/2015 10:26

Just saw on bbc news site that Egyptian authorities now not allowing Easyjet to land

pluck · 06/11/2015 10:26

Thanks for clarifying, AlpacaLypse. I don't watch Sky News, but perhaps should: that's a bloody good bit of journalism, and extremely relevant, I'd say!

(don't feel bad, treaclesoda, I was confused by the luggage comment, too. After all, one major security measure is airlines' ensuring that luggage travels with its passenger, and if a passenger has refused to board a plane, that passenger's luggage is also hoiked off, for fear that it will explode! Given the context of terrorism, I forgot about the always-with-us fear of theft! Blush)

AlpacaLypse · 06/11/2015 10:56

Apparently staff who work airside - handlers, caterers etc - were not nearly as rigorously searched when arriving and leaving for work at this airport, as they are meant to be. There's some talk that a ISIS sympathiser could have got work airside, or that someone who works airside could easily have been suborned into placing a bomb, say by threats to family etc.

treaclesoda · 06/11/2015 11:53

Blush ah, I see. I understand now. That all went right over my head.

Yeah, I would be on a special British plane like a shot and to hell with my luggage if there was a concern that a bomb could be smuggled on the plane. And I'd be grateful for it.

tiggytape · 06/11/2015 12:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DrasticAction · 06/11/2015 12:49

the poor children are having an education are they not? In terror, mis management life gong wrong, the world is a horrible place?

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot · 06/11/2015 12:55

You get priority fast track queues for security at lots of airports, usually if you're on a more expensive ticket or have some sort of loyalty card. So it would be reasonable to think you were paying a fee to go through quickly, and never consider the possibility that it was possible to pay to avoid.

I don't know the logistics of security airside, but if they cannot trust the integrity of baggage handling at that airport, I can see why they're says no hold baggage. At least whilst they're trying to get thousands of people out as quickly as possible. Because even though it can seem like an age to get bags through, a I bet it's a hell of a lot slower if they need to alter the screening and then have everyone carry theirs out to the plane.

Ricardian · 06/11/2015 13:10

After all, one major security measure is airlines' ensuring that luggage travels with its passenger, and if a passenger has refused to board a plane, that passenger's luggage is also hoiked off, for fear that it will explode!

A policy that made sense when terrorists didn't want to die. You can deal rationally with the IRA, because suicide wasn't part of the objective. Erect enough obstacles that it's clear they'll die in the process, or end up in gaol for life, and they move on to other exercises, such as negotiating with the British government. It's that scene from Heat ("You see me doin' thrill-seeker liquor store holdups with a "Born to Lose" tattoo on my chest?") writ large.

It's an entirely pointless policy if your opponents are nihilist suicide bombers, because dying in the process isn't just a risk, it's the main appeal. So they die in the process of killing hundreds of people. Great for them: much better than not dying.

A lot of security policies dating from previous terrorist groups rely on our opponents being rational actors. Just as it's harder to defend computer systems against teenagers who assume they won't be caught rather than rational blackmailers who want to make money without going to gaol, it's very hard to defend airports against people for whom dying in a hail of bullets or a burning plane is something to be aspired to.

The Glasgow airport incident was a real insight into this. They were really, really, shit terrorists. Only in the world of shit terrorists is a car full of gas bottles a serious weapon; building thermobaric devices requires huge amounts of research and is still very difficult, because you need to form an aerosol so that there is excess oxidiser available, and only then ignite it. But their main aim was to die as martyrs, and a car fire is as good a way as any to manage that.

AuntieStella · 06/11/2015 13:26

I've just seen a news interview with an airline security consultant. If I understood him properly, he said no hold baggage for two reasons:

a) fewer items to check (quicker to turn planes round, but also removing one whole area of risk)
b) the hold of the aircraft can be sealed the entire time it is on the ground, so no-one can gain access for any purpose.

pluck · 06/11/2015 13:32

Agreed, Ricardian about the problems posed by suicide bombers. However, it does make a certain sense to keep that "baggage reconciliation" step in the security checklist, because:
(a) not all bombers want to be martyrs
(b) with fake IDs, one terrorist could check luggage in to multiple flights, and only go on one (or none) of them
(c) marrying passengers with their luggage is a good discipline for keeping tabs on both passengers and luggage, from both customer-service AND terrorism-prevention perspectives There's also still baggage theft (as mentioned) to be worried about.

I don't think this should be the only measure, though!

pluck · 06/11/2015 13:37

(P.S. I'm so glad this thread turned out to be so much more interesting than truancy! Smile)

AuntieStella · 06/11/2015 13:58

It looks like Russia is about to suspend flights to Sharm.

www.rt.com/news/321055-russia-halt-flight-egypt/

shebird · 06/11/2015 14:51

Anyone moaning or grumbling about having to fly home without their luggage needs their head examined. Priorities folks Confused

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