To be sad ds has been 'moved down a table'

[Givinguph0pe]

Ds is 6 and a half and in year 2.
In his own words he's been moved from the 'smart table to the not smart but not stupid table.'

I'm not hugely surprised as I don't think he's as bright as the children in the top ability group - except perhaps for numeracy. I feel stupidly sad though, especially as it seems to have knocked ds's confidence.

It would be pointless anyway, hiding the abilities of others is no way to build a healthy and resilient attitude to learning in anyone.

Really??

I'd be more upset at my child labelling other children as stupid.

What you need to get rid of is the labels. Nothing wrong in knowing child A is a whizz at Maths - the damage is concluding that you are therefore stupid.
I think some parents can make it worse - proudly saying 'my child is on the top table' - unfortunate when they are only 5/6 yrs and very fluid and it can change week by week. ( Not that I am saying OP did this- she just need to stop any talk of smart and stupid)

OP, I would try to be casual and breezy about the table move. In truth, this isn't a big deal and you want him to realise that it isn't. He is only in infants and there will be lots more chopping and changing to come.

Who is most academically talented doesn't seem to clearly emerge until the end of primary. By the end of primary, some children do stand out and the other children do notice. And it's often not the children who stood out at the beginning.

At my DC's school, the children do have a view on each other's strengths and weaknesses. But I've never heard the word "stupid." If anything, they talk about each other with so much kindness and euphemism, that as an adult it almost sounds like overcompensating condescension. But it's not, they are mimicking in good faith what the teachers and TAs have modelled for them.

Of course 'really'. Unless you teach the child in a box so they can't see the others they know. I used to sit next to a boy at school- he had a messy book but he was fast at Maths and his book was covered with ticks. I knew that I was better than a lot because the teacher would go over things that I grasped easily. Other children would ask me for help.
Children are not stupid.

OP, I totally understand how you feel. My DD is also on the top children for the different lessons (Numeracy and Literacy specifically) but this week 4 from her group had to sit on the next table down to repeat a maths task they'd done the day before because they didn't quite understand it.

I understand why they need the tables to be done by ability because each group may learn in a slightly different way, but inevitably they all learn the same things.

But I sometimes wish that DD was on the middle table because I'm fed up with stressing about whereabouts she is. I HATE being like it. I really do. I just struggle to stop .

Having said that, I've never heard any of them relate to any children as 'stupid'.

Of course it is 'no big deal'- they are very young children. they change all the time. You would imagine from this that the top table one is the one off to do Maths at university!!!

I used ability groups because OFSTED expected differentiation and having children on the same table doing different levels of work isn't really any better for the children than having ability groups. However I changed my groups at least every half term so there would be movement up and down.
Once I changed the colours and got a furious letter from a parent demanding to know why Thomas had been 'put down' to blue table, when he hadn't changed levels at all.
Unfortunately parents often make things worse. There is always the Mum in the playground who tells everyone that their child is in the top group for everything.
At DS2's Junior school it was even worse. They had two classes, the class with all the ones who were being pushed for level 5 in SATs and the ones who weren't. DS was in the bottom class of course and it did have a negative effect because it was set for the whole year and there was no possibility of moving classes. At least with the group system there is a chance to move around.

If the group are widely referred to by the children as the stupid table rather than it just being your son then the school sounds vile. In what way is it an academic school? Selective private you mean?

Quite meihitabel. Hopefully the increasing number of schools moving towards mixed ability teaching will get rid of some of this angst.

Perhaps there'll be fewer children 'still on phase 1 phonics' in year 2.

I would guess that the teachers don't realise what the DC are saying amongst themselves Carla. The DC who have introduced the term "stupid" most likely picked it up from older siblings. Most parents wouldn't throw it around either. But older kids might without having much sensitivity. They are just kids too, without much sense sometimes.

Orange there is hope for 3 year old ds, who has a severe speech delay, dev delay, and cannot count or read. Well actually he sounds a lot like how I was, he is a chip of the old block, I have a good BA and a good Msc, so there you go! You cannot judge children so young, they are still growing and developing. Unfortunately the education system does this, the expectations of children so young is astounding.

Mixed ability teaching isn't a cure all. It gets more and more difficult as the children grow older and the range of abilities within a classroom of 30 children spreads ever wider.

At my DC's school they have experimented with ability tables and also mixed ability teaching, and with pairing together strong with weak students.

In all three of these situations, the DC have never had their ability labelled. In all three situations, the DC have been aware of their place and their peers' place within the academic pecking order. People are social animals and want to know how they fit into their social group. Academic prowess is one dimension along with friendship groups, sports performance, music, etc. I don't think you can stop the DC noticing and caring about these things. I think the best you can do is to encourage them to be aware of others' feelings, polite, and to "run their own race."

One DD felt a bit overlooked and frustrated with her own perceived standing in the class in infants. We supported her interest in dance as an extra curricular. It gave her another outlet and a chance to shine. It propped up her little ego when she needed it. She is no longer interested in dance, but she is a very good student in secondary school now. It's nice to support some outside interests so children have more than one outlet. That way a small, truly inconsequential event at school won't seem quite so big to them.

So that's my advice. It's unreasonable to expect that teachers can make all students feel good about themselves at all times. As parents we can help our DC to have full lives with lots of opportunities for self expression, success and validation.

I agree about the ability of children to know their place, and how they internalise others' labels. Even my possibly-on-the-spectrum, very socially unaware DS doesn't want to be a Viking nobleman for his "topic" dress-up day. He didn't even consider it, and self-selected as a "free man".

(I am thankful, though, that he didn't think he had to be a slave: shows he's got some self-esteem!)

My now 13 year old got demoted from the ultracompetitive top Maths table when she was 7. Absolute relief from me and her. She is now the best in her year at Maths.

I am not opposed to streaming as DC learn at different paces and in different ways and this approach gives more scope to work at a small group pace rather than forcing a whole class either to keep up beyond their capabilities or be held back.

When I was at primary each DC went through workbooks at their own pace. That was really terrible as I don't remember very much teacher input at all.

It's not your child/children who is the problem as regards the table being labelled the stupid table, but I do think it is a problem for the children being so labelled.

I think back to my primary school days and can't remember thinking that any of my classmates were stupid and I never remember my dd referring to anyone in her class as stupid. And we both went to very traditional schools.

OP you should be ashamed of yourself! I've actually re registered because I'm so cross...
My son is in Y1 and has Down's Syndrome, he is superbly included in MS school and he is liked and played with by his class mates. As far as I know, no one has referred to him as "stupid" or commented about which table he's on. I wouldn't expect it either as our school is very naturally inclusive and prides itself on educating and supporting all children through their own individual learning journeys. I'm glad you're not at my son's school

Settlingin I have a Y7 and a Y4 child and I have never heard of them or the children in their class referring to the "stupid table." If they did i would put a stop to it pretty fast and I'm pretty sure other parents would have the decency to put a stop to it too.

I'm not surprísed Carla, it's what I would expect from parents. In the same way that I wouldn't expect it to be coming from the school either. I doubt it's the school that is "vile." Kids pick up foul language and put downs from other kids usually.

No one has suggested it is coming from the teachers Settlingin but if the children there are routinely referring to other children in that way then yes, it is vile.

So you reckon it's the other parents?

The problems come when all of a child's friends are at the top table and she is the only girl (in a class with only 4 other girls) sitting at the bottom table along with several boys with behaviour issues.

This happened to my daughter's best friend when she was 9 (at an OFSTED "outstanding" school) and it was extremely damaging.

The children all know what work everyone in the class is doing and what all the tables signify, however cleverly the teachers try to hide it. It can do a lot of harm, not to everyone, but to a sizeable minority, I would guess.

I don't know why they are like it. Like Perspective21 I'm very glad they aren't like that my children's school. Are they like that at your children's school?

In one year 4 class there are children who cant count to 20 right every time, others are doing fractions. Sets are necessary really. It does mean anyone in the lower ability sets will struggle to move several sets, its possible, but not likely. Literacy is different, as they can all try, bit ones who cant grasp full stops, isnt going to be including speech marks.
They do need to be at a different pace, and feel able, putting them in the higher sets would harm their self esteem.