Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Original poster

To be sad ds has been 'moved down a table'

128 replies

Givinguph0pe · 05/11/2015 20:30

Ds is 6 and a half and in year 2.
In his own words he's been moved from the 'smart table to the not smart but not stupid table.'

I'm not hugely surprised as I don't think he's as bright as the children in the top ability group - except perhaps for numeracy. I feel stupidly sad though, especially as it seems to have knocked ds's confidence.

OP posts:

NanaNina · 05/11/2015 21:21

I find it strange how children know which is the "top table" - at DGD's primary, they were coloured tables, "red" "green" "blue" "white" but she knew that "white table" was for "dummies" - I know it sounds horrid but all the kids know, and she was just copying what other kids were saying. Glad to see some teachers who are teaching in mixed ability groups

Original poster

Givinguph0pe · 05/11/2015 21:26

They do know and they know very early on in my opinion.
Ds didn't know last year because it seemed more fluid but this year he seems to have known from the get go. I'm convinced he's heard it from someone else.

OP posts:

DullUserName · 05/11/2015 21:27

I use groups only for guided reading, and that's simply to support the differentiation in texts and questions. For pretty much everything else we are mixed. I often call up groups to work with me for support or extension, but they then go back to working on mixed tables.

I would be VERY concerned that a child uses 'stupid' as a label. They do know perfectly well what's going on when they are in ability groups, but that label is horrble. If that happened in my clas, I woudl very much appreciate being told about it please.

I certainly try to keep my groups very fluid, so they do change size according to the text or what that week's focus might be. That way, they all get the support and extension that they need. I try to pitch moves in a positive way: "I've noticed that you found this tricky last time, so come and work here for now so that I can help you more and we'll see how you get on."

Marynary · 05/11/2015 21:29

I think that tables are a good idea for maths and literacy but I would be very worried about the fact that they call some tables "stupid" tables. That is really awful.

TeacupDrama · 05/11/2015 21:32

My DD is in P2 ( Y1in England) their reading groups are grapes strawberries and blueberries it took her about 3 days to work out that 1 group had harder reading books than her and the other group was further behind. Fruits numbers colours etc , they don't even fool those less academic never mind the high fliers.

However tables are mixed as its a composite P3/2 class and changed about every 4 weeks

Homebird8 · 05/11/2015 21:36

Children aren't stupid. Even very young they can work out which children find school work easy and which don't. We spend years teaching them to group things so that they learn the basics of order and vocabulary (items with matching colour, the pieces from a game or set into a single box, children are different from adults, etc.) and then we wonder why they see groups of children and place the correct interpretation on them.

EvaTheOptimist · 05/11/2015 21:44

Happily my DS appears oblivious to the ability groups. Though - in the spirit of GruntledOne - I asked for my DS to be moved down a group last year as I felt otherwise he might be put off reading/writing/spelling. This year (Y3) they don't appear to be on ability tables.

DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep · 05/11/2015 21:46

My DD is just in Reception but I know her school does ability tables in the next 3 classes (it's a 4 class small school, so mixed year classes)

I'm sad to hear they 'know' so early, but it's not unexpected I guess. I knew which was the higher ability table when I was at school too.

I think contining to talk about everyone's strnegths and weaknesses and some learning faster than others is the best way to go. And making sure he knows your love is never dependent on his performance.

scallopsrgreat · 05/11/2015 21:49

Really? Schools group according to 'ability' so early on? Seems all kinds of wrong to me.

ChiefInspectorBarnaby · 05/11/2015 21:56

Schools have to group by ability so they can support those children. People saying otherwise have no clue what it's like to work in a school. Mixed ability is ok some of the time but other times- run like a blue arsed fly from one kid to another? Or teach as a small group?

Marilynsbigsister · 05/11/2015 21:56

Can I just say OP that where you are now seems like such a big deal, but it's really not ! ( but so difficult to see from you and your dear DCs PoV ) my first DC got moved down. She was not gifted language wise, but very competent numerically ... Time passed, we live in 11+ area. All her friends passed . Except her.. ..she was still good at the numbers. She went to the fabulous comp. after an appeal we decided she should stay where she was as she was happy. Time passed... She took maths and further maths plus another academic a level. Her numbers were still good... I'll spare you the rest but currently in Oxbridge college studying something other than maths... Moving down a table means NOTHING..

Mehitabel6 · 05/11/2015 21:57

I would emphasise that he gets work suited to him.

CakeMountain · 05/11/2015 21:58

Is this a wind up thread? You said this However I must admit I think this fell on deaf ears. I wonder if it's something someone in his class has said? Maybe they've heard it at home? You're saying it at home yourself - what do you expect!? You are upset he fell one table, he will pick up on that disappointment.

SawdustInMyHair · 05/11/2015 22:00

It's so you can target teaching for what the children most need, Scallops. Although I wouldn't have ability (we're supposed to sat attainment, but then people look confused) tables because of all the reasons above. It's more of a faff organising differentiation when the kids are mixed up, but it's better for them.

Mehitabel6 · 05/11/2015 22:01

I think that he is picking up from you. He is only 6 yrs old- it really doesn't matter as long as he gets work appropriate to his ability. Were you making a big thing of him being on the 'top table'.

Original poster

Givinguph0pe · 05/11/2015 22:05

No I definitely was not and nor did I ever refer to it in those terms. Ever. I only knew because he came home and said 'I'm on the smart table.'

Today he came home and said he's not on the not smart not stupid table. I haven't mentioned it at all in between except when he has referred to 'the stupid table' and that was when I spoke about people having different strengths and weaknesses etc.

OP posts:

LynetteScavo · 05/11/2015 22:07

To those asking, of course schools set in Y2. Many schools set in Reception, they just don't make a big thing of it as they don't have tables.

In DDs Y1 class they had book bag boxes according to ability. Imagine my bewilderment when I say DD was in "Floppy" box. Not Biff, not Chip, not Kipper...but Floppy.

Want2bSupermum · 05/11/2015 22:13

It is a tough lesson to learn at 6 but there will always be those who are better and worse than him. He needs to learn to focus on his own achievements. I would be asking if he is sad because he wasn't working as hard as he could and then later ask if he didn't like the feeling of not being in the 'best' category. Both are very very different issues but both need to be talked through. As long as he is trying his best he will be fine and its best to discuss his feelings around 'demotion' to the group his teacher thinks is better for him. Confidence is very important and I am very careful with my DCs that when it is knocked it isn't shattered. At this age they are all still learning at very different paces so its probably all going to change again anyway.

ipsos · 05/11/2015 22:22

Maybe you could find out from the teacher what he's fallen behind on and work with him at home on it?

BlackeyedSusan · 05/11/2015 22:22

grr. yep I would feel sad too. you sort of have to get over it in your own way. not that it helps much sometimes. but yes being kind and compassionate and working your hardest are all good qualities to have.

EnaSharplesHairnet · 05/11/2015 22:27

A bit of a tangent but I tell my kids off for describing people (including themselves) as stupid and remind my 9 year old "don't use the "S" word".

We have a dyslexic in the family and they agree that person isn't "stupid" so I think that helps too. Talking about timing helped too.

Want2bSupermum · 05/11/2015 22:32

Ena I tell my DD that only stupid people refer to others as stupid. She isn't stupid so needs to think of another work. DD is 4 and so far as changed her reply to poopy head!

HoneyDragon · 05/11/2015 22:34

Seeyounearer that's not the same as a child coming home and saying I'm on the stupid table in the context the op has said.

Wherever that has come from, it's no good for the children in a learning environment.

ladydepp · 05/11/2015 23:07

Our primary school groups by table for ability in literacy and numeracy from Reception. Different groups get different numbers of spellings etc... From Y3 they are formally setted for Maths.

Children move around a little between groups but rarely all the way from most to least able or vice versa. Does it make a difference? Maybe. There are 4 maths sets at our primary, the children who made it into the most academically selective secondaries only came from the top 2 sets, mainly from the top set.

Is it fair? No. But some kids learn more quickly and are just more able academically and need a faster pace than those who take a bit longer to get things.

And children know where they are in the pecking order from a very early age IME. Sad but true.

Atenco · 06/11/2015 04:11

I'm a bit freaked by this. I understand that teaching mixed abilities is hard, but I hate the idea of a child being labelled stupid, especially at such a young age. What about summer born children? Do they learn to identify themselves as stupid at such a young age when in fact they are just very young? What about slow developers?

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6