AIBU to expect a barrister to talk properly?

[justdiscoveredyoucanchangethis]

For my work I transcribe court cases, and I just did one where the barrister said "you was" several times and continually said "aks" instead of "ask".

Surely to become a barrister you have to have a high level of education and should not be talking like some kind of teenager from a rough estate? Am I being snooty? It's not that I think only posh people should be barristers but if you choose to go into a profession where your job involves speaking in a very formal context you should learn to speak in the correct way for that job.

No starfright, sorry that's not the way it works.

If you worked in a law firm your supervisor would return your post to you with a big red line through "affective" and the word "effective" written in red pen and would be annoyed that they have to waste their time correcting your spelling/grammar and not just your legal knowledge. I know exactly what you mean but it isn't acceptable for these errors to be present.

(disclaimer I never correct grammar/spelling on MN I am just illustrating a point)

Starfright
I assume you've made the error just to show that people can understand even if mistakes are made. However, if I was to see that from a lawyer in an official document I would be a bit worried.

It really isn't a class issue, if a fundemental part of your job working with words and language then it's not too much to ask that you get it right in formal situations.

x post

lawyer minds

I would not be impressed either by a barrister who spoke as you describe OP.

However I object to the idea that lower or working class people all speak with incorrect grammar in all contexts. I am from an extremely working -class background (butchers and miners) and we all speak broad dialect with associated incorrect grammar amongst ourselves, but every single one of my grandparents knew exactly how to speak when in formal situations and it was drummed into all subsequent generations.

I am sorry but your post reminded me to much of this scene in the life of Brian!

Centurion: Well, no, sir. Umm, I think it's a joke, sir... like, uh, 'Sillius Soddus' or... 'Biggus Dickus', sir.

Pontius Pilate: What's so funny about "Biggus Dickus? "

Centurion: Well, it's a joke name, sir.

Pontius Pilate: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called 'Biggus Dickus'.

[guard chuckles]

Pontius Pilate: Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.

Chaz, were you joking and making a point with those mistakes? (was for were and fundemental). Not trying to be snippy, just puzzled.

"If I was" is correct english so is "If I were"

Any mispelling is entirely down to me which is why I would always spell check a formal document. (Dyslexia runs in my family) Which also why I am very conscious about affective and effective and don't normally correct people's spelling and grammar (it was relevant in the context of this specific thread and I fully except accept you doing it to me )

I know black Caribbean professionals living in sarf London who say 'aks' and 'you was'/'we was', and pronounce 'ing' endings as 'in', as in ''we was talkin' 'I was lookin'. Also prounounce silent 'h' quite noisily and actually sometimes insert a distinct 'h' in front of a word like 'object' ie one which starts with a vowel. As in 'I Hobject to being stereotyped'
I don't mind it. I consider it a very specific dialect.
Educated Londoners of African heritage tend to be massively posher AFAIK especially those whose families hark from West Africa.

Oh god that Life of Brian sketch. I can hear every word of it in my head exactly as it was said in the film.

I was taught, albeit in the olden days, that the subjunctive followed 'if', hence 'if I were' rather than 'if I was' . No intention to offend, just wondered if you were kidding. Clearly not. Sorry.

Jessie mc jessie. no of course not all working class people speak like that, but it IS a class marker

Tricky
The use of the subjective in informal language (like MN) is definitely fading, that is an area where language is changing. Also finding mistakes like that in a legal document is no longer a hypothetical scenario...

Just wait until they release Fiddler on the Roof with
"If I Was a Rich Man"

Chaz

Subjunctive chaz. Not subjective. Though obviously the reaction to the lack of it is highly subjective. .

Comptesse

I agree with that, except that I doubt he would write ungrammatically. So I'd see the 'we was' as a dialect thing (not sure of the correct term for it).

I am very torn. On the one hand, he is clearly NOT unintelligent. But I know that accents and dialects are judged harshly as an indicator of intelligence

some kind of teenager from a rough estate?

That comment instantly made me want to puke and disregard anything else said. Even if expecting a barrister to speak grammatically correctly isn't snobby/unreasonable, that comment is.

Just to add ... and yes, it's about professional context, as others have said.

I have an accent and occasionally use incorrect grammar eg 'I was sat looking at the clouds, when a horse appeared). That's my dialect. I know some people might judge me for this 9an old MN thread attests to this).

I would not speak in this way if I were a barrister.

I wanted to point out that it's possible for educated adults to speak differently from how they write

Subjunctive obviously - thanks phone

Just a couple of quick replies:
It was a female barrister, no idea if she was of Caribbean origin or not I only have audio. I have in the past transcribed a judge who was of Caribbean origin (the only reason I know this is because I had to google him to check his title eg The Honourable) and he had the poshest voice I have ever heard.

Aks is pronounced AX and is just wrong not a dialect. I have frequently transcribed barristers and judges with regional dialects but they still speak correct English.

The job of a barrister is mainly to persuade the jury of their case. If the jury get the impression the barrister is uneducated or can't be bothered to speak correct English I think that may well have an impact on their ability to do their job effectively.

Tricky - I changed it because the guideline is that you correct any grammar error or even hesitation or false starts when it is the judge or counsel speaking. With witnesses you leave it exactly how they said it, bad grammar and all. This reinforces the fact that barristers and judges are expected to use correct and clear English really doesn't it?

This might interest you, OP

Aks/Ax is a dialect

Why Chaucer useD Ax and why some still do

Also, if she was of Caribbean origin, your experience of another person of Caribbean origin means little - they are different people possibly brought up in different places

It sounds uneducated and would worry me. If a doctor or barrister used those particular expressions I would be worried about their professionalism.

But can't you see that how it sounds is only prejudice? We all know what level of education barristers and doctors are required to attain?

sorry, second question mark was unnecessary

One of my teacher friends put a status on fb the other day with two "should of"s. I was a bit surprised but couldn't work up the effort to be bothered about it.. but can understand why some people are.. It does seem unprofessional.