AIBU to expect a barrister to talk properly?

[justdiscoveredyoucanchangethis]

For my work I transcribe court cases, and I just did one where the barrister said "you was" several times and continually said "aks" instead of "ask".

Surely to become a barrister you have to have a high level of education and should not be talking like some kind of teenager from a rough estate? Am I being snooty? It's not that I think only posh people should be barristers but if you choose to go into a profession where your job involves speaking in a very formal context you should learn to speak in the correct way for that job.

Teensgers from rough eststes can be educated too. Just because he doesn't talk like he has a plum in his mouth and a stick stuck up his arse or may not have got to Eton, does not mean he does not deserve the chance to do well. You sound like a bit of snob tbh. Also WTF has how he speaks got to with his educated he is. What about those with speech impediments.

Yes teenagers from rough estates can be educated too. I was a teenager from a rough estate and I'm now a lawyer with a very high income. Part of being educated however is learning how to present yourself correctly and the way you speak is part of that. If you're an advocate in particular you need to be eloquent, persuasive and professional.

Sorry I think it's a dreadfully snobbish attitude to have.

It's reinforcing the idea that an accent or pronunciation somehow reflects on a persons intelligence or ability to do their job. That your 'perception' of someone's professionality is all that matters.

No wonder some professions have a class barrier.

Personally I don't care if my surgeon or barrister talks like Ali-G if they are good at their job.

As for 'One, Two, Free' A friend of mine speaks like that and it's comments like the one above that has her actively trying to avoid saying 'three' in ANY conversation. She's tried to change it, she just can't pronounce it. Does that mean she can never have a well paid or professional job as she wouldn't sound the part?

My boss says aks. It's slightly annoying but she is otherwise shit hot and I really don't think it's impeded her career.

It may well be snobbish - welcome to law.

I disagree that its about being snobbish though. A barrister is engaged to argue a point coherently and persuasively, to create a good impression and to explain to a judge why their argument/point is correct in law as opposed to that of their opponent. If you are struggling speak coherently you are failing in that task.

But there are good lawyers and there are bad lawyers just as there are good and bad people in every profession.

I am amused at the idea that "aks" is a Yardie thing, a Carribbean convention.

Way back in the 70s lots of kids at schools said "aks". That was in rural, farming Cambridgeshire and I know that those kids had never seen or heard a black person in their lives, never been to London, this was before the Great Spread had reached Cambs. I know because of the furore when a black family moved into the area.

Mind you they hadn't read Chaucer either, he used "aks" too!

As a one-time teenager from a rough estate, YANBU. Speaking properly is a key part of his job.

how on earth is "aks" pronounced? I've never heard it used. arks or ax

Is a 'common' accent not understandable? Would the judge be unable to understand what they were saying?

Why would a barristers accent stop their arguments from being correct in law as opposed to their opponent?

Why would saying 'free' instead of 'three' or having a 'council estate teenagers' accent invalidate their points? Or mean they couldn't explain clearly what they meant?

Do you think people wonder around estates attempting to have meaningful discussions but ending up scratching their heads wondering what the hell they are all talking about?

Having grown up on a rough estate I can confirm that there were many conversations that went on that left me scratching my head wondering what the f**k that person had just said.

It's about perception. It's a profession based on intellectual ability, speed of thought and eloquence and the inability to argue coherently and professionally will impede that.

You might not like it but its a fact - proven by the OP's negative perception of the barrister in question.

I am also a lawyer and I think the poor grammar would bother me more than the accent. You are expected to be clear and logical in your arguments and getting your grammar right is one of the basics. (Mind you I was not overly impressed with the dressed down solicitor when we were taking a big case to court either. I expected everyone involved to look and sound professional.)

Lawyers are paid for their technical expertise and their ability to communicate that expertise in a clear coherent manner. Basic grammatical errors would have me considering whether that lawyer was the right person for the case.

I would wonder if English is their first languageWere they Carribean?

This shows me that you lucky lot have NO idea about the hoops you have to jump through to be a barrister in the UK if you are a foreigner. It is one of the most protected professions. If English is NOT your first language, you can be pretty damn sure that you will need to speak it a damn sight better than the natives to pass all the Bar exams!

As for the Caribbean comment, class distinctions based on levels of education do exist too, you know, even among us foreigners. A middle-class Caribbean barrister is not going to talk "street" just because he is black. There are better-educated and less-educated foreigners you, know. Just like with the natives. Being black is not a guarantee of any particular accent. And I have never heard a single one of my Caribbean friends, all of them middle-class professionals, or their children for that matter, say the word "aks".

My husband has a south london accent. He is perfectly able to say 'three' but often it slips to 'free'. I used to let it go but now I correct as my children are picking it up and it changes the meaning of the sentence. "Look, there's free eggs" or "look, there's three eggs". It is laziness and habit on the most part, his mum is the same.

I think as a barrister, needing to sometimes argue finer points of law, it is necessary to use English in the standard form, so there are no ambiguities as suggested by Boredofthinkingofnewnames
Similarly, if questioning defendants or witnesses, you need to be clearly and easily understood by all concerned. I don't think you need to be 'posh' but you do need to speak formally and be grammatically correct.

ffs, of course it isn't snobbish to expect a BARRISTER to be able to speak correctly. Yes - correctly. English is a language with rules just like any other. The fact that it gets widely bastardised doesn't make mistakes any less wrong (pet hate - "more heavy" instead of "heavier", etc).

None of the things the OP has pointed out is anything about accent - it's to do with grammar.

The OP isn't saying "hey what for, this chap was speaking with a NORTHERN ACCENT". It is perfectly possible to speak grammatically correct english with a regional accent. Thousands of people manage.

"Free" I would genuinely assume to be a speech impediment.

YABU... I am an Astrophysicist. I also was born in South East London. I do sound rather common, but luckily for me I guess I haven't come across many people like you so it hasn't held me back. I find intelligent people are much now interested in my ideas and what I have to say, rather than my accent or my pronouciation of certain words.

It's reinforcing the idea that an accent or pronunciation somehow reflects on a persons intelligence or ability to do their job. That your 'perception' of someone's professionality is all that matters.

Sorry, but if someone doesn't know that 'you was' is incorrect, then yes, I question their intelligence and education!

I do love the MN double standard here though with people falling over themselves to not judge a barrister saying 'you was' but will gladly correct a post that uses 'should of'.

Barristers should talk proper, like, innit?

I've never heard "aks" before either. Where do people say this? I'm from northern England

Meewho there's a big difference between being able to make a sound with your tongue between your teeth and being able to say 'three thousand motheaten goths' in conversation.

Justdiscovered, when you transcribed, did you correct or leave it verbatim?

Coherence and power of argument have nothing to do with accent.... unless the audience is full of snobbery (which, amongst the middle classes who can afford a barrister in Britain, it inevitably is). So I can well believe this would be something that would hold a legal career back, but I'm saying that it shouldn't.

Some of the cleverest professors I know speak with regional accents from the urban to the rural. I think this will be one of those issues that seems really old-fashioned in 20 years' time.