To think if I had paid £6k a year to have my daughters educated by this woman

[catgirl1976]

I'd want my money back

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/head-teacher-tells-girls-you-cant-have-a-career-and-be-a-mum#.xfVk8JvGg

Glad she's stepping down.

I get telling girls there is a glass ceiling, but she's pretty much telling them to roll over and accept that.

I get telling girls that it's a valid choice to choose not to have children, but her message over all is appalling.

I heard a similar message from another head of an all girls independent school, and she basically said "you can do anything, you can't do everything, choices must be made, some things will have to be sacrificed for other choices, but these choices are all yours to make, and you can do anything".

Why is everyone blaming her for not having the solution? Her job is to prepare girls for the reality that will face them when they leave school, not change the world for them. We all know what needs to happen (men's careers taking 50% of the hit and men doing 50% of the childcare). It's so obvious as to be barely worth saying.

And I think she is saying something radical. It's certainly always been accepted dogma in the circles I've moved in (private school, russell group uni) that we could have it all. My headmistress worshiped Nicola Horlick, we had her shoved down our throats constantly. Life has absolutely not panned out like that for us, and we're all now facing difficult decisions and compromises that we were in no way emotionally or practically prepared for. It's MY school I'd want the refund from.

That twitter account is funny

Written by a woman?

Not sure it takes the p out of inequality or career-mums though!

You can't have it all.
You either have the career and delegate the childcare or you do some of the childcare and your career suffers.
Men don't have it all- on the whole they have the career and they miss out on the child care.

I can't see what is wrong in saying things as they are. After the obvious things of food, shelter, clothes, love and security children need time and lots of time. They want their parent's time. It doesn't matter which parent but one has to make them priority and they have to be at the school play, sport's day, parents evening, bedtime story, able to drop things and go to A&E.
Both parents can't manage a really high flying career where you are always able to put the job first. It doesn't have to be the woman, but one has to be the one to drop everything and sort out a crisis with the nanny.

Not everyone has parents around to help out- even if they do those parents have their own lives! They may have high flying careers or have gone travelling for weeks on end etc.

If both parents do equal childcare they are not going to have high flying careers.

You can't get around the fact that children need time.
One parent has to make them priority.

You can of course delegate it all out- see the children for an hour at the end of the day and weekends and holidays - but I don't call that 'having it all' if the child is going to get all the emotional support from the person who is physically with them most if the time.

I chose - I would never get past a glass ceiling my way, by saying 'I can't do that meeting next week- I have to be at sport's day' - 'I have to leave early on Tuesday, my child is in a play'- 'The school has just phoned - my child has fallen off gym equipment and I am off to A&E'.
If I had chosen the career then my DH wouldn't get far in a career.
If you put you both equally then both your careers suffer.
If you both put your career first then your child suffers. They don't want granny or the nanny delegating- they want a parent.

You can do anything- you can't just do everything.
One has to give.

The uncomfortable truth is that children change your life and children require time. Not quality time when you are prepared to fit it in- just time.
If you can't give it they have a closer relationship with the person who can give it.
It is a choice- one has to have priority.
Women tend to have regrets that they didn't progress in a career.
Men have regrets that they missed out on time with their children.

Personally I would rather pay the £6K a year to someone who tells it as it is than pretend it is possible to do the impossible. At least they leave school with their eyes open and make realistic choices to suit them than be fed a lie and have to discover later that children change your life.

First thoughts are maybe she's raised a problem (like no-one else had noticed?!) - but yes where are the answers?

Not very inspiring or well thought through for a head of a girls school I wouldn't say

Not impressed!
(but will read the link later to find out more what she did actually say - this is just over my morning cuppa before the school run)

Of course it should be pointed out that it applies to boys too.
They have never had it all and need to realise that it is a choice and they can be the childcare parent and the woman can have the high flying career.

I know quite a lot of younger men who work around the child care and let the woman do the career. They won't rise in a career but they are not bothered.

Haven't had time to read the full thread but I don't understand the outrage, what she said is correct and I've seen threads here in the past saying the same thing so what is the outrage?

She's not saying it's right or she agrees with it and it is not up to her to find a solution!

Given the fact she is headmistress of a girls' school, it would have been difficult for her to give the message to boys, too.

Sadly she is right.
She should not be vilified for telling it as it is.
She did not make the world into this type of place.

I would imagine she said what she did to make the girls think, and hopefully spur them on to continue education , go for a career, and NOT just go all gaga and baby crazy, turn to mush at first love and decide they want to stay home with their children for the rest of their lives.

Like majority of women do.

Exactly roundaboutthetown - but then she gets pilloried because she gave it to girls.
You have to face reality. If daddy does the child care he will be the name called at night, he will be the one run to when they fall and cut their knee. All OK if it doesn't bother you,but you ought at least to know that is how it will be.
You will miss whole chunks- if you go to Japan for a week with your job you will never know what happened in your child's life in that week- everyone has moved on.

Thing is, it's not just that both parents can't have high flying careers is it? It's any career. Or any job. Prioritising the kids and being able to go to sports day and parents' evening and plays and whatever simply isn't compatible with working regular office hours. My job is rubbish. I am a massive under-achiever and have been in the same role for more than 10 years (way before I had kids). But I still can't just slope off to sports day when I fancy it. In fact, I think it would be easier if I was higher up and could set my own agenda a bit more. My holy grail is working for myself. I work really hard and there are ways to do that and still see your kids - but it might mean working in the evenings or early mornings which is fine by me but not with my boss!

Or equally QuintShhhhhh, be like men getting to the end of their lives and having huge regrets about time missed with their family.
Only you know what suits you.
Choices have to be made.
I can't see the point in shooting the messenger because you don't like the message.

True Kathy - but in the way up you can't have your own agenda.
My son is single with no children and he is often asked to stay late with a deadline looming. It wouldn't go well if he said he needed to be home by 6pm.
The other important message is that you don't have to have children- it is OK to not want them. It is a perfectly valid choice and not 'unnatural'.

Apologies; I haven't RTFT. Sadly, I agree that we probably can't have it all right now, but that is at least partly because there is so much resistance to part time working (in law, anyway, where I work).

I think part of the problem is that if we as a society accept this "we can't have it all" idea as part of our discourse, then a blanket refusal to allow part time working will continue to be an acceptable response by employers. I often get frustrated with poor DH on this topic, and he often points out that in 10-15 years, the old guard will have retired and it will be people our age at the top of the tree, who have had to fight the fight themselves. In theory, that should mean that flexible/part time working is met with less resistance. If, however, all we have done in the intervening period is sat here and collectively nodded our heads about how impossible it is to have a career and children, rather than work out exactly what can be done, how and by when, then there will be no reason for the partners in law firms etc to need to change their practices.

That said, I can't really talk. I will expressly tell DD not to be a lawyer because I would be too frightened that things have changed quickly enough to benefit her by the time she has children. I rather hope she might want to be a GP. All my GP NCT friends have gone back 2 days a week. I wish I'd been good at science!

Kathy that is what DH does. He owns his own business and gets to all the school stuff because of that. I have absolutely no chance of getting to anything as I work term time only but then I have the holidays.

be like men getting to the end of their lives and having huge regrets about time missed with their family

I honestly think only the minority of men do.

They are just not wired that way. Why else can men just turn their back on their families, skip merrily into the sunset with another woman, sow their oats as they go and go and go and never look back?

We must not make the mistake of thinking men think like us, and will have regrets just because we would.

I think part of the problem is that if we as a society accept this "we can't have it all" idea as part of our discourse, then a blanket refusal to allow part time working will continue to be an acceptable response by employers. I often get frustrated with poor DH on this topic, and he often points out that in 10-15 years, the old guard will have retired and it will be people our age at the top of the tree, who have had to fight the fight themselves. In theory, that should mean that flexible/part time working is met with less resistance. If, however, all we have done in the intervening period is sat here and collectively nodded our heads about how impossible it is to have a career and children, rather than work out exactly what can be done, how and by when, then there will be no reason for the partners in law firms etc to need to change their practices

Good God thank you for this. I have started to get so disheartened by this thread but I agree with everything you have said. I think this is probably the biggest issue the fact that people have become resigned to the status quo. I do not want my daughters to grow up in a world where they do not have choices but I also want them to be able to have a family work balance. Things can change and they should change.

I read time and time again about men who regret it. Generally they have a child late in life, are hands on and realise what they missed with their first family. I have yet to meet anyone who says they wished they had spent more time in the office.

Well, they are not missing it as they live their carefree lives, so whats the point of them missing it when they are close to death/retirement? That does not prove anything! They are just scared of being alone, in their last few remaining years. Measure 60 odd years up against 10 years of old age and lonelyness, most still chose the 60 years spent as the pleased.

What an old fogey is blabbing on about is hardly going to make young men sit up and take notice.

It is a bit like turning to religion out of fear just before you die. You are never actually going to convince anybody that any God is the right choice when you are in that frame of mind.

When I was at school in 1960s I was told that we would all have more free time and the problem would be knowing what to do with it!
The mad thing is that everyone works silly hours now. Flexie time is the way forward and every job should have a work life balance. However high up you are there should be time for hobbies, interests, voluntary work and families. Sadly there isn't.
It is changing- I know many men who do the bulk of the child care but they are not ambitious in a career.

The one fact is that children need time. They don't go into a cupboard and come out for a bit of quality time!
You are quite likely to miss a night's sleep if they are ill etc.

Gosh- I am so glad that I don't have that jaded, cynical view of life-QuintShhhhh - it sucks out all the joy. I hope that you don't pass that into children.

I dont think you can extrapolate how I raise my children, and presume anything about our happiness and joy together.

I have sons. I raise them in the belief that women can do everything they set their minds to do, as can men, and that we are all equal.

I am however aware that they will probably never wipe my bum when I get old, they will move on with their wives/partners and have their own families, f they wan to. As they should.