To think if I had paid £6k a year to have my daughters educated by this woman

[catgirl1976]

I'd want my money back

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/head-teacher-tells-girls-you-cant-have-a-career-and-be-a-mum#.xfVk8JvGg

Glad she's stepping down.

I get telling girls there is a glass ceiling, but she's pretty much telling them to roll over and accept that.

I get telling girls that it's a valid choice to choose not to have children, but her message over all is appalling.

One of the reasons Oprah Winfrey never had kids because she reckoned they would suffer because of her career , not sure how to link the article but if you google it you can find it, very honest I thought

I've gone back to work part time since having my daughter and she goes to nursery three days a week.

I could have gone back full time, but I didn't want to. I could work longer hours on the days I'm in the office, but I don't want to. My husband could (and would) finish on the dot of 5pm once or twice a week to pick her up, so that its not just my career that's taking a battering, but I don't want him to. I want to do it. I miss her. I don't want to not see her before she goes to her bed at night. She is my priority now. I'm not saying my way is necessarily the right way, everyone is different, but I have found that since having my daughter, my views towards work have completely and utterly changed. I'm glad I have my job (sometimes...) but it's just not the be all and end all.

When my daughter goes to school, then I'll go back full time, pick up the reins again and make a success of my career. My mum did exactly this, and now has a highly successful career aged 55. Same with my mother in law. I see them as having "had it all", more or less. Or as close as I've seen it anyway. Excellent relationships with kids they enjoyed because they were around in the early years (I'm not trying to say that you need to not work to have a good relationship btw, I'm not trying to offend or judge anyone, I swear), and successful careers later on once the children have become a bit more independent. I'm probably being naive though. And I do appreciate that there are various reasons that it doesn't work that way for everyone.

Very few people wish that they had spent more time in the office when they are lying on their death bed. I worked for a man who didn't see his young children from bedtime on Sunday night to the following Saturday morning, every week, because he put work first and worked late every single night. They barely know who he is. They have a rubbish relationship, they won't even be left with him! I just can't get excited about having a high flying career after witnessing that.

Other than pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding why SHOULD bringing up children be a "women's issue" rather than an issue for both sexes? That is what I object to about the comments this headmistress made in the article. No head of a boys' school would be talking to their pupils about this. Nobody ever praises men for "juggling" family and careers because people largely see childcare as something the MOTHER has to make decisions about. The article just felt so defeatist! And what a surprise that her comments were given a bashing in the Guardian (excellent article by Harriet Minter) but rather more favourable treatment in the Hatemail which has for a long time been waging a pernicious war on working women.

It infuriates me when women insist on seeing certain issues as their sex's problem. Why should organising birthday parties and ironing on name tapes be our job? Why do we roll our eyes comically saying we don't trust our partners to do it so we do it all ourselves? In the process we make hubands depend on us (why is my DH for example incapable of suggesting to his mother what she should buy DD for Christmas without consulting me?!) and the cycle goes on. Why when the annual calls for class reps goes out does it never go to fathers but always to mothers? And when I protested about this, I was just told by perfectly intelligent peers with careers that the "men" just wouldn't do it properly so we had to. Aaaaaaagh!!!!!!! Why do some of my friends feel the need to leave instructions for men with degrees on what to feed the children if they have to go away for work? By infantilising our partners, we have created a heavy burden for ourselves.

To be perfectly honest messalina, in my case it's a control thing I think. I know my husband can do all of these things perfectly well, I don't see them as "my job" specifically, but I want them done my way.

can't speak for everyone, that's just my personal feeling.

another Even though that's putting women at risk of postnatal depression and feelings of guilt if they don't immediately take to motherhood, or struggle with being the primary caregiver?

jorah how long are you talking about? Returning to work after a week is likely to contribute to PND too. Anyway in my experience women I know who returned to work that early did so because they were self employed and not out of choice. If they were financially supported many would have preferred more time with their newborns.

I agree with parts of what she says, but yes, it's all more of an argument FOR feminism than against. We need a massive shift in our attitudes as a society if we are ever to have anything resembling a level playing field.
I've long thought motherhood has little to offer women in practical terms, and that you'd have to really be very fond of children indeed to bother. In a world where money is God, it's amazing so many of us do, when as a result we lose so much in earning potential, pensions, promotion, and ultimately power...Imagine if parenthood actually did have the same impact on men?

Here's the 'man who has it all' Twitter page mentioned earlier. It's clever how it turns it around and makes you realise how ridiculous our society actually is in our attitudes to women. It made me guffaw, and then feel a bit sad. I was reading bits out to my teenage dd, and she didn't get it at all, she thought I it was bitchy and mean about poor men I know - I have a lot of work to do here

Thank you Breakfast. The twitter feed made me laugh too. Esp the recommendation about eating dried leaves and making things out of felt when feeling stressed. Points noted. He also looks like a mutant clone so may not even exist.

actually can a clone be a mutant too? that may be an oxymoron.

just carried on reading the twitter feed Breakfast mentioned and am nearly ill with laughter now. heartily recommend it.

Seems to me so many people choose motherhood in a world where money is God because there's something badly wrong with the notion that money is God, rather than a means to an end... Nothing is going to change if it's all about money, power and status. There is nothing inherently loveable about money. I would rather be motivated by my children.

Right well here goes. I went to a top private school where the ethos was to aim as high as possible. We were told repeatedly that every option and choice was available to us as well as the consequences. Our dear head of sixth form told us the day before our A'Level exams 'When they ask old people what they regret its what they haven't done not what what they did that they regret. Just go out and do what you can, don't hold back and don't let fear turn into regret.'

another I think it should be up to the mother to decide what is right for her and her family. If someone wants to take a year off then great. I couldn't see myself taking that long off. I took about 5 months off in total with DD as I was on bedrest from 35 weeks and with DS I took 10 weeks off and he was 2 weeks late. I went back to work because I want a career. If I take off a year for each pregnancy I would be so far behind there wouldn't be much point in me working. I am very lucky that I have choice. Most women don't and that is what is wrong.

The UK is awful with supporting dual income families and it is often the working mother who is left behind. It is extremely frustrating. I find it shocking that in 2015 there isn't a requirement for every school in the UK to offer childcare before and after school, enabling both parents to work. Here in the US we have care from 7:30am - 6pm. School meals can be purchased for breakfast and lunch. There are private providers too that offer care through 7pm as well as care on training days.

doh! Not 'its what they haven't done not what what they did that they regret' but 'its not what they did that they regret but what they didn't do'

ooops!

Having children did not harm my career. I took statutory maternity leave and went back to work full time. I got accelerated promotion too. What has harmed my career is getting older. No-one in my organisation over the age of 50 gets promoted to the top echelons (and it's very, very rare to get there over the age of 45), and those who got the bottom box marking for their appraisals were all over 50 last year, with the vast majority of those in the top box under 35, and about 1% of those who got the top box marking were over 50.

another I'm talking after say, a month. I developed severe PND because it was just unrelenting; DP helped whenever he could but he worked nights, and the nights were the worst times. He felt awful for having to go to work, and I felt awful for wishing I wasn't stuck at home. It would've been so much easier had I felt able to go to work instead.

From a child's perspective, I think spending my childhood in a school environment from 7.30am-6pm every day, including school holidays, sounds awful, Want2bSupermum. Sounds like a Soviet crèche...

Also, those hours still aren't long enough for many London commuters.

Good childcare comes at great expense.

As I get older I realise that society is completely built around men and according to men's needs.In order for women to be truly equal the whole of society needs a massive shift. I hate the idea that to be successful, women have to act like men. We need flexible working, we need enlightened managers who can let their employees work from home or change their hours or do whatever needs to be done. We even need more toilets and better air conditioning.

I'm struggling at the moment because my husband started a new job about a year ago in finance - and there is no flexibility. So, I've had to alter my hours to suit his new hours and where we used to share drop offs and pick ups, I now often do both. He can't ever take time off for a sick child so this week we had one child ill on Friday then another sick at school yesterday. I had to leave work (it did briefly cross my mind that school phoned me, not my husband. Never the dad!) early and obviously i'm at home today and probably tomorrow as well due to the ridiculous 48 hour thing. My colleagues all hate me. But I'd argue it's not kids that are harming my career, but my husband's career. I've never been as close to just giving up as I've been since he changed roles because we're no longer a team. It's not his fault - it's the industry he works in.

But, KathyBeale - is it fair to say society is built around men? Is your dh pleased with his new hours, lack of flexibility and being able to get out of some of the childcare?
I think we can all be a bit hypocritical about flexibility. We like the idea of flexibility for ourselves, but want 24 hour availability from others, where possible. We don't like to find things unavailable, or in mid staff changeover, when we need them.

Leaving that is sad for you, but I can also share the anecdote that my dad was loving and devoted until his death, long long after he and mum were divorced, so he plainly didn't just connect to me through mum. He was also a very hands on, devoted dad.

What enrages me about that head teacher is that she is basically telling girls they have no chance of finding an equal partner who will share responsibility. 6k a term to be told you will have to be a drudge for a man child all your life. Fuck that!

My DH and I have always tag teamed & shared domestic responsibilities and girls should be told this is normal (and yeah, men can love their own children without going through their mum).

Even sharing responsibility, you can't have two parents working the same traditional, inflexible working hours, or, as the headteacher put it, the paid housekeeper will see the best of the children... Clearly, she felt her childhood experience was so undesirable, having no children at all would be better!

Well OK, allowing this to be true - why is she making this the girls problem? Can she not imagine it is possible to marry someone who will share the load? My DH has worked part time - so I guess his career will have taken a hit - this should not be painted as a woman only problem.

Can you imagine the HT of Eton telling the lads they can't have it all or they won't see their children growing up? But that is as 'true' so why not raise it with boys, not girls?.

I think you can have it all but not at the same time!
I think it's reasonable to have the conversation re choices in life. The reality is some careers are more incompatible with family life than others. its unlikely that both of you will be able to have such a career.

Imagining that it's not a problem is silly, I think she was helping girls face reality. There is not usually 24/7 childcare available unless you can afford a nanny, which demands one of you be at home at night.

I have talked to my DD about such issues, she doesn't have to have children, but it's handy to live near parents if she does for those times where childcare doesn't exist! Or chooses a different career.

As said before we all want 24/7 availability but that impacts on who does the job!

I'm waiting for the head of an all boys school to tell his/her pupils that they need to be prepared to pull their weight at home if they want to find a partner who will want to have children with them.