To think I'm NOT allowed to punch members of the public unconcious no matter what my company tells me?

[WhoTheFuckIsSimon]

company is an nhs hospital

Annual study day today and of all the bollocks ive ever heard I reckon this takes the biscuit.

According to the fire officer on this formal study day if there's a fire and someone is refusing to evacuate "as an nhs employee you are allowed to punch them unconcious and then drag them out"

He wasn't joking, not at all.

Questioning colleagues later on its something he's said to other groups on other days.

I really don't think he's right. Surely even a police officer can't punch someone unconcious? What happened to informed choice! People are allowed to make stupid decisions if they want.

What if I do an unlucky punch and kill someone with one punch? What if I struggle to knock them out? Do I just keep battering them?

And most importantly dragging uncooperative people out of burning buildings is surely going to slow down my own escape!

We had to watch a video of the Bradford fire disaster and he warned us there were scenes of panicking people running and if we didn't want to watch we should step outside. It wasn't graphic at all.

Ten minutes later he was showing us close up photos of blackened, charred bodies. No warning, no offer of stepping outside.

Carrying an unconscious body is really difficult, so this is doubly ridiculous advice.

Dh is astounded do we have to help anyone evacuate. He reckons the first rule is don't put yourself in harms way and that nurses should leave all the chair bound/bed bound patients and just run for the doors.

Thankfully he's not a health care professional.

WhoTheFuck

Yes, we were shown that too.

MrsKoala
This could be open to abuse surely. I can see people setting fire to their own office then punching out Janet from accounts and saying she was uncooperative. No? is that just me then? blush

Brilliant!

Did you get the tiniest suspicion he was rather enjoying the attention of a roomful of mainly women?

Surely that's what pulling their pants down and jabbing them in the bum with a sedative is for?

Personally, I'd get out who I reasonably could and leave the idiots to the firemen who have the equipment and training to evacuate people from burning buildings.

He sounds like a loon - tell your line manager.

Under common law, you can apply force in some situations such as an immediate threat to life. This applies in A&E, for example, if a delirious patient tries to leave - you can restrain him for his own safety (and there is now also some statutory protection under the Mental Capacity Act). This is certainly not the same as punching someone unconscious which would be an idiotic thing to do in a fire - for a start, how do you then get the unconscious person out of the building?

Fireman is talking out of his exhaust pipe

I'm glad I dont work for them anymore. At 5ft 5inches and 8 stone I would have trouble punching someone unconscious.

After all that effort my twiglet arms would be too tired to drag them anywhere.

Perhaps they need to provide weapons to make the job easier. Like mobility aids.

We could call them immobility aids. Obviously the slide sheets will now need to be fire retardant so I can drag them with minimal damage to my back.

narp. No he was youngish and very, very serious.

shiny. See ive previously been told you can't restrain someone in such a situation. Can't prevent anyone from leaving. We've been told to call the police and let them sort it even if they then have to hunt the person down round the city.

WhoTheFuck I think he's sort of right. When I worked in the NHS it was normal that the lifts would stop working, so it would be impossible to get people with limited mobility out. There are normally fire proof refuges on each floor, and patients who aren't mobile are put there to be rescued. Then they help out any mobile patients. But staff certainly aren't expected to be making sure every patient is out of the building.

punch them unconcious and then drag them out

Somebody has been playing too many video games.

He reckons the first rule is don't put yourself in harms way and that nurses should leave all the chair bound/bed bound patients and just run for the doors.

Actually, I'm inclined to agree. If you don't have the necessary equipment to get them out, you'll just be one more body for the firefighters to drag out. Do what you can, but the second you're about to become another victim is the second you're just contributing to the problem and taking up an unnecessary bed in another hospital instead of being able to lend a hand tending to them because you go yourself out.

Luckily modern hospitals are designed so that fires can't spread through floors. There's plenty of stories about nurses who had to keep patients on upper levels of the hospital oblivious to a fire that's going on a floor below them. So, it's unlikely you'll have to evacuate more than a floor anyway.

We're in a tower block, near the top. I always thought I had to evacuate people down the stairs on special chairs. Ive never been told I should just look after myself, get out and let the FB sort it. I always thought it was like the captain has to be the last to leave the sinking ship.

Maybe Dh is right.

He also reckoned there's been 14 fires at our hospital in the last month caused by people boiling kettles with insufficient water.

That didn't sound likely either.

Whothefuck that is not true - you can restrain under common law in these situations, though the force used must be proportionate to the risk. So using restraint to stop a pissed patient leaving with a cannula in his arm would be unreasonable in most situations as the risks from the cannula are small. But in other situations such as a patient delerious with encephalitis trying to leave, you not only can use restraint, you will often have a duty of care to do so.

Sounds like whoever does mandatory training at your trust is talking out of his/her a**e

What if you punched them and they got upset, punched you back, knocked you out and you died in the fire?

Very stupid advice!

Love it! I've enjoyed the delights of NHS fire training in my time and I agree they're an odd bunch

My one and only appointment with the health visitor was a great little trot down disasterville, too: I must never carry baby in a sling because just last year a baby DIED, SUFFOCATED BETWEEN ITS MOTHER'S BREASTS IN THIS VERY STREET! And if baby gets a cold and can't breathe through her nose, TAKE HER STRAIGHT TO HOSPITAL BECAUSE BABIES CAN'T BREATHE THROUGH THEIR MOUTHS AND SHE WILL DIE.

I avoided health visitors after that.

I think he may be one of those imposters/impersonators who pretend to be doctors/pilots whatever!

14 fires? in one hospital, in one month? Nooo. I am always sticking the kettle on without water/enough water - never gone on fire once.

Also what if you did manage to punch someone unconscious, and then you couldn't drag them out?

Bloody hell, that's some weird training! My company has designated fire wardens in each department and lucky me, I'm one of them. We get yearly training/refresher course and they have always stressed that it is not your responsibility to physically remove people who refuse to go. Apparently you inform the fire brigade when they arrive that there is someone in the building. Makes sense to me but I'm quite disappointed now thinking of all the colleagues I'd otherwise be able to punch when we have a fire drill!

I hope you have this in writing. You have a get out of jail free card. If someone annoys you at work you can punch them then shout FIRE!

Sadly I don't have it I. Writing and I suspect if I punched someone and they died he would deny ever saying it. And Id be accused of being a psychopath.

Ask Demand to train on him.