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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

So it's my faukt

63 replies

Leafitout · 01/11/2015 21:52

Sitting here in tears not knowing what to do. Long story but will keep it factual. My ds dad is hard work. He was very abusive and has a long criminal record. He was given a few months suspended prison sentence for assaulting his ex. And an indefinite restraining order not to ever go near her again. I was awarded by the courts a two year restraining order that he does not contact me in any way or insight others to do so. And he is only allowed indirect contact with ds.
Now he has emailed ds saying ask your mum if I can see you but I'll tell you the answer will be NO! Ds is now saying dad wants to see me! The way he has put it to ds is that I am stopping his father from seeing him. Like its my fault!!

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Original poster

Leafitout · 01/11/2015 22:43

I have told ds the truth as far as I could have. It's hard because I don't want to scare ds or seem like I am putting him in a position of him thinking that I'm bad mouthing his father. His father has destroyed my confidence, boundaries and self respect. All of which I don't want for ds. I want things to be as normal as possible for him so that he can get on and do well in school. It's important that nothing gets in the way of him being able to succeed. I find his father sneaky and a loose cannon.

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BaronessEllaSaturday · 01/11/2015 22:49

That email itself may be breaching the restraining order because he is requesting DS speaks to you on his behalf to gain contact basically he is using the email as a way of harassing you. I would log it with the police and I would also speak to your solicitor about it.

Original poster

Leafitout · 01/11/2015 22:49

He is asking ds to ask me to break the restraining order basically and this worries me

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Baconyum · 01/11/2015 23:00

I meant police/law may be able to deal with him without you going to court.

I think by not telling DS the whole truth you're setting yourself up for a problem in the future a la 'why did you lie mum' 'why didn't you tell me'

BaronessEllaSaturday · 01/11/2015 23:00

Your restraining order includes him not inciting anyone else to speak to you on his behalf and that is exactly what he has done in the email he has sent to your ds. I know he is allowed to email your ds but he is not allowed to use that to harass you.

Original poster

Leafitout · 01/11/2015 23:17

His father is a violent thug who goes out of his way to get his own way. That's hard to explain to a young boy. I tried to explain it in a way that didn't unnerve ds. We went through a stage of being protected in our house by an indoor panic alarm being fitted, women's aid, contact centres and numerous police visits to the house. He has seen alot due to his fathers behaviour.
Hence the reason he is not allowed my phone number as he used it to speak with ds then demand that ds give to phone to me for him to then shout and be abusive at me. So the judge said indirect email contact so he could not do that anymore. He once even phoned my solicitor telling them that the ball was in my court to break the restraining order and that I was just being stubborn!

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Baconyum · 01/11/2015 23:55

Even more reason for honesty. I don't think it's unreasonable to say 'your dad hurt me physically so legally he's restricted in order to protect me and you' ex must be pretty bad if he's not even allowed supervised contact. I'm certainly aware of pretty horrendous cases where the perpetrators still get supervised contact. I'm guessing not only a threat to you but to DS and anyone who might be supervising too.

AcrossthePond55 · 02/11/2015 02:48

I agree more honesty is needed as per baconyum's post.

I think you need to consider the real possibility that your ex's next move, once you refuse contact, will be to attempt to persuade DS to meet him on the sly. He will beg, cajole, and guilt DS every way he knows how to get DS to do so. And don't convince yourself that DS won't be susceptible to his father's emotional blackmail. You know, I'm not sure that setting up clandestine meetings isn't the whole purpose of his email, seeing as how he knows you'll never permit direct contact.

You seriously need to screen those emails. You aren't stopping the indirect contact, you are simply insuring that DS doesn't see anything coercive or that asks him to do something you would not wish him to do.

You really need to set up a monitored email inbox for DS or see a solicitor about it if you doubt the legality of doing so. If you feel that monitoring it yourself will cause you harm or distress, ask someone else to do it for you, a friend or relative.

Baconyum · 02/11/2015 03:33

Acrossthepond good point about the ex planning on setting up a covert meeting. Monitored email sounds a very good idea.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 02/11/2015 04:04

As you say this man has terrorised you so you don't know which way is up! Utterly vile for you and your lad.

As others have said, I think you need to be much clearer with your son... You're not bad mouthing his father, you're giving your son clear, unambiguous reasons why this order is in place... I don't think just saying 'making wrong choices' is enough lovely!

IMHO you need to say to your son...

Judges only give restraining orders where there is little alternative. Say that you don't want to frighten him, butbut you feel he is old enough to know a bit more.

Your ex has a long history of it....place tje blame and responsibility solely on your ex to your son...so thete is no wriggle room in your son's head.

Think out 3 or 4 points...he did x y and z so that is why there is an order. Just simple statements. There is nothing to stop you saying that you don't believe that any r/s with his dad would be good for him.....as he has shown in the past. He harms people. He has harmed a lot of people through his life, acknowledge that it is sad that he can't have tje r/s with his dad he may dream of having. As his dad is? dangerous /harms people /only thinks of himself?

Say you are happy to answer any questions he may have.
I would leave the door open for him to ask further questions as he grows into adulthood too.

So sorry you are in this situation!!

Jenny70 · 02/11/2015 04:15

He sounds like he is grooming your son to meet him.

Is the restraining order against son, or just you?

I think an honest chat is needed with your son about what his father has done, the consequences of those actions and that his father is grooming him to believe he has changed etc (telling son what he wants to hear). If father really wanted access, he could apply through the courts, be assessed whether he was still a risk, and get supervised visitation etc.

At 12 your son is still confiding in you, trusting you with this dilemna... at 14,15,16 he will be meeting ex without your permission, ex will spin his own version of how hard done by he was and wanting DS to move in with him to get back at you. If DS has a bad day because you've made him do homework, help in the house, get off the games etc, he'll be easily manipulated by ex.

You need to be honest with your son, and put the onus back on father. Tell son, if father wants visitation he will need to get it legally, as the judge ordered it - if he can't be bothered to do it, then that is his choice, not ours.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 02/11/2015 04:18

Oh yes as others say... I think it is really important that as he is now definitely trying to manipulate your son via email, he needs to lose this benefit. He's really playing fast and loose with the restraining order.

Your Ex:s email contact needs to be seen by an adult (social worker? Cafcas) before it is passed on.
This really needs to be done immediately... Cafcas /your social worker /solicitor can advise you how to get this set up quickly. Please do not try to manage your difficult situation in your own... You've already had a lifetime of terror from him sadly!

I think it is highly likely he will try and set up some kind of clandestine meeting and guilt trip/ groom your son into meeting him...... Horrible thought isnt it.

In your efforts to protect your son it is too easy to fall into another trap, where he doesn't know enough to realise just HOW serious it is!

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 02/11/2015 04:20

Excellent points from Jenny 70!

Original poster

Leafitout · 02/11/2015 09:59

I phoned 101 just for some advice and to log it. They sent two officers round. The first officer looked at the email and was shocked that it's been a while ds had last seen his dad. He also shook his head and said there is no breach and it's not worth contacting ds father. As it will only inflame him! They know the history, use of knives, agressiveness, threats but don't want to upset him. They have refused to make any contact with him. I'm sitting here shaking

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Jux · 02/11/2015 10:22

Yes, you need to tell your ds everything now. He is 12, he knows a lot already, and he's old enough to take it. He needs to know the lot so he can protect himself.

This will be hard, but you have to do it.

Ask WA about the Freedom Programme, google it and see if it runs near you. Even if you've done it before, it's worth doing again if you can.

Original poster

Leafitout · 02/11/2015 10:35

Ds said this morning can my dad come to my birthday. I said that it wasn't possible due to his fathers past behaviour. And there is a restraining order to prevent him from being able to do so. Ds said that his father has changed. I said to ds that actions have consequences and his father has broken the law.hurt people.

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VimFuego101 · 02/11/2015 10:49

I think you need to go back to court and have the order changed so that emails are sent to a third party and vetted. Do you think your son would notice if you logged into his account and blocked his dad's email address?

HaydeeofMonteCristo · 02/11/2015 11:01

As I understand it, you have a restraining order that prevents indirect contact with you, or (in your words) inciting others to contact you on his behalf.

If he has text DS asking him to "ask your mum x" that is contacting you indirectly a d so he is in breach of that order. Therefore police should know.

If I've got the facts wrong, please tell me.

He may also be breaking the terms of family court order but I don't know about that.

Original poster

Leafitout · 02/11/2015 11:14

He wrote in the email "ask your mum" but according to police officers who visited this morning it is not a breach and not worth talking to him as it would upset antagonise him!

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Original poster

Leafitout · 02/11/2015 11:43

I have spoken to a friend and she is of the same thinking as a poster above that he could be grooming ds to meet him. The restraining order is for ds father to stay away from me with no contact whatsoever or insight others to do so.

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AcrossthePond55 · 02/11/2015 14:30

I think the police officers were wrong and that they don't completely understand the situation. They're missing the grooming issue. And I think you need to speak to a solicitor right away. Does your ex have a parole or probation officer you can speak to?

Do you have access to your son's email account?

Original poster

Leafitout · 02/11/2015 16:44

The police have minimised the situation given they know of the history. They could clearly see that I was upset. They understood the situation and the terms of the restraining order but saw it as a minor incident. He does have a probation officer but I have no idea who. He also has to sign on at a police station weekly. I can have access to ds emails as I have his password.

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Original poster

Leafitout · 02/11/2015 17:02

I found the officers a bit stand offish. They asked as procedure form filling if I had any mental health issues? I said I did, they said ate you on medication, I said yes and they then asked me if I had taken it yet? I feel like I'm in the wrong for seeking their help and advice, my fault.

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VimFuego101 · 02/11/2015 17:03

I think you need to find out the name of the probation officer and contact them directly. Hopefully someone here can help you find out how to do that.

Original poster

Leafitout · 02/11/2015 17:14

I don't know what I would say even if I did find out who his probation is. I just hope he isn't sitting and brooding if he doesn't get the answer that he wants. This is when he becomes unpredictable.

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