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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stop tipping?

101 replies

DimpleHands · 01/11/2015 15:45

Just that really.

It's always so awkward and feels so patronizing. And now that the minimum wage is going up significantly surely employers should be paying their staff sufficiently?

Up until now I have always tipped - £10 to my hairdresser each month, 10% to taxi drivers, waiters, etc. but actually everything's so expensive anyway (£169 at the hairdressers this morning! Shock) that I kind of feel like I am paying enough already!

Is this really mean of me?! Do you all tip?

OP posts:
ArcheryAnnie · 02/11/2015 13:11

Zoe I have no intention of making you feel guilty, that's up to you. I am only stating what the situation is.

I've waited tables (and been in the kitchens) too. Oh, and hey, nice going on suggesting that people who are put in the position of having to take very low-waged jobs are "fools". How fair-minded you sound.

mileend2bermondsey · 02/11/2015 13:16

many of the percentage who did tip would only round up to nearest pound
What kind of restaurant were you waitressing in?? Confused

noeffingidea · 02/11/2015 13:18

I usually tip in restaurants, but not any set amount. Cabs I usually just say keep the change if it's over 50p or so on a short journey.Anything less just seems insulting.
As for hairdressers, I'm in two minds. I've known a couple of hairdressers and they earned good money. I sure as hell wouldn't tip on a £150 hair do. I would tip a junior for washing my hair, but do not give me a 'head massage'. Just wash, condition and wrap it in a towel.

mileend2bermondsey · 02/11/2015 13:18

nice going on suggesting that people who are put in the position of having to take very low-waged jobs are "fools". How fair-minded you sound
^^ This

WMittens · 02/11/2015 14:39

RebootYourEngine
WMittens - arent all employees doing what they are being told to do by their employer? A waitress is told to take an order and put the food on the table, a hairdresser is told to cut a customers hair. I dont see the difference.

welliesandleaves
Are waitresses, hairdressers etc not also completing tasks for the ultimate benefit of their employer?

I don't really get the difference outlined. Yes, one jobs involves interacting on an individual basis with customers and another doesn't. But you don't, for instance, tip the assistant in a shoe shop who brings you out shoes to try on, or the guy in the phone shop who sorts you out with a new phone.

If you can't see the difference then I'm not sure I can explain it to you.

To start, it is very unlikely that you would tip for a product. A tip is provided for a service.

A shop assistant that brings you shoes to try on is not providing a service - they are providing a product, they're trying to make a sale. In a sales environment (possibly shoes, possibly not, I don't know) there may well be a bonus structure to better remunerate successful sales people; a phone shop, I'd imagine that's definitely the case.

In a restaurant, part of the reason to go is the experience, not having to cook, serve and wash up yourself. Most people can make a meal for themselves, very few people can make shoes for themselves (and if you say you can, I say cobblers). So you don't go to a restaurant because it's the only way to get fed, you go because you want nice food and good service. Disinterested, grumpy waiting staff and slow service can ruin the dining experience, so the promise of tips is to bribe the waiting staff to smile and be polite to you (cynically speaking). Seriously though, the level of attentiveness (which doesn't always mean bothering the diners, it may mean keeping an eye on them and identifying when they need service) can drastically change how much you enjoy the meal, even if the quality of the food is top notch.

A grumpy hairdresser who complains that they've got to wear sweaty gloves they don't like because you asked to have your hair coloured is not going to enhance the experience; a hairdresser who is pleasant can make the whole thing more enjoyable.

An example of tipping in Pizza Express and not in McDonalds was mentioned above - along similar lines, consider a buffet restaurant and a table service restaurant: you go up to a buffet, pick what you want and go back to your table; if you later want more food, you repeat that process. In a table service restaurant, waiting staff come to you with the food (having come to you to take your order) and may periodically check if you want anything else, or you may try to catch their attention if you need something.

A hotel porter who carries your bags to your room effectively does nothing for their employer (other than improve customer satisfaction), that is entirely something they've done for the customer.

A shelf stacker is not doing anything special for a customer - the shelves of a shop have to be stocked for the business to work. There is likely to be little interaction with a customer, unless they ask where the peanut butter (or whatever) is; even if they do interact, there's no real opportunity to pass a gratuity as tipping is usually done at point of payment. I suppose the likes of Argos would be closer to the idea of shopping as a service, but that is more the business model of the company than promoting it as a service to the customer. A personal shopper may receive a tip, as they are providing a service to the customer (although that may be more of a client relationship than customer relationship; I don't know, I've never had a personal shopper).

I'm not saying all service jobs should attract tips and I'm sure there's a large amount of historical convention at play (given how attitudes vary in different cultures).

SaucyJack · 02/11/2015 15:36

Yes, I can totally see the difference in the role performed between service type job and retail jobs.... but I still don't understand why in today's climate of alleged social equality and the NMW people doing certain jobs should think they are entitled to tips over people doing other types of job.

Wait staff are already being paid to bring your meal out to the table. That's the essence of the job. It's not a personal favour.

ThursdayLastWeek · 02/11/2015 15:42

But they way in which they do it can vary so greatly...employers basically pay you to turn up and keep to health and safety standards.

The smile, the chat, the thoughtfulness, the efficiency is extra, dependant on the individual.
IME.

The80sweregreat · 02/11/2015 15:47

Depends on the service i receive if i tip or not. I Usually do as i know how hard people in hospitality work, low pay etc. hairdresser yes as she is good and can make my horrible hair nice for a few days at least.
If service is really bad without an apology i refuse to tip, but that is rare .

WMittens · 02/11/2015 15:59

SaucyJack
Yes, I can totally see the difference in the role performed between service type job and retail jobs.... but I still don't understand why in today's climate of alleged social equality and the NMW people doing certain jobs should think they are entitled to tips over people doing other types of job.

Wait staff are already being paid to bring your meal out to the table. That's the essence of the job. It's not a personal favour.

I think the point of a tip is it's very much not an entitlement - that's why it's also known as a gratuity.

Do you not see that how a service is performed can affect the efficacy of that service, whereas how a product is sold makes no (or little) difference to the efficacy of the product?

I'm not sure what social equality has to do with remuneration; are you suggesting that everyone should be paid the same, irrespective of the work they do?

SaucyJack · 02/11/2015 16:02

But you could say that about a lot of jobs Thursday. You don't tip your childminder or delivery person though.

Everyone else is expected to do it cos of this thing called a work ethic. Why is the person who brings your pizza out any different?

slightlyglitterpaned · 02/11/2015 16:03

I read a really interesting series of blog posts from a US restaurant owner, who'd run two restaurants in the same city, one took tips, the other banned them.

He had a lot of interesting comments about how the non-tipping one encouraged staff to work together instead of as individuals trying to maximize their tips, but what really stuck out was his descriptions of customers who got really nasty about not being allowed to tip. Seems some customers got a kick out of feeling that they could hold power over their waitresses in the form of how much they chose to tip, and resented not being able to do that (he described it as having a creepy sexual element to it).

It's made me feel quite different about tipping since. I would much prefer us to have the Aussie anti-tip attitude than go any further towards the US.

ThursdayLastWeek · 02/11/2015 16:09

I tip pizza deliveries Smile (or more accurately, I did when I lived somewhere they delivered)

And I leave a present for our post-lady and most frequent delivery lady around Christmas time as a token of our thanks all year.

It's ok, like WM says, it's not compulsory. Nobody expects it. We remember the big tippers but no one is treated badly because they didn't tip. Again, IME.

I honestly honestly honestly wish I could get everyone to understand how difficult it is to be the only waitress who actually gives a shit in a cafe because it's my full time job, when you're surrounded by part timers just there to earn a bit of spare cash who simply don't care about doing things as well as possible. It's misery making.

Knowing that someone recognises the difference between you and them is very much appreciated, and I can assure you most employers I've had dont give a shit.

ThursdayLastWeek · 02/11/2015 16:17

And yes, I'm sure it could apply to more jobs. But I dont think that makes the point any less valid within hospitality.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/11/2015 16:27

You don't tip your childminder or delivery person though.

Huh? I totally tip the delivery pizza guy. They get paid fuck-all and when someone has come out in the rain to stop me having to go out in the rain, that's worth a couple of quid.

I thought everyone tipped delivery people.

Mama1980 · 02/11/2015 16:47

I always tip if the service is good because I can afford to (not a boast just fact I wasn't always able to) and when I was a very young waitress in the worst cafe known to man the tips I got made a huge difference. We always split tips equally at work. Saw it I guess as kind of a bonus, no different to big wig executives getting bonus cheques for Christmas, or teachers getting Christmas presents. (To a greater or lesser degree obviously)

noeffingidea · 02/11/2015 18:25

thursday what do you do that other waiting staff don't? I'm a bit confused because I've never really noticed any bad service, really.

noeffingidea · 02/11/2015 18:27

archeryannie my son used to deliver pizzas. On a good night he could make £150. And that was his second job.

SarahSavesTheDay · 02/11/2015 18:32

I tip pretty heavily. I agree that there's no rhyme or reason to who is tipped and who isn't. I generally have a lot of middle-class guilt and would like to see higher wages, so this slots right in.

ThursdayLastWeek · 02/11/2015 19:13

Work faster, be more efficient, anticipate the needs of the customer, remember requests, be friendlier, be more accommodating...I'm happy that you've never experienced bad service no. i hope you never do.

SaucyJack · 02/11/2015 19:54

"I'm not sure what social equality has to do with remuneration; are you suggesting that everyone should be paid the same, irrespective of the work they do?"

Tipping harks back to the days when poor people had to ingratiate themselves doing favours and service for the upper-class to earn a crust.

It isn't like that any more. Someone waitressing in Prezzo or Wagamama or whatevs is likely to be of a similar socio-economic standing to at least half the customers. It's not a master and servant thing.

There's no justification for tipping for normal service in normal restaurants these days. Wait staff are doing their job (like everyone else) for the same wages as everyone else.

(You sound nice tho Thursday. Sorry)

ThursdayLastWeek · 02/11/2015 19:55

Like I said Saucy I'm a SAHM now - the days of being appreciated for anticipating the needs of my 'customer' are long over Grin

ArcheryAnnie · 02/11/2015 20:23

noeffingidea that's lovely for your son. Not all areas of the country are the same, though. Imagine that.

CleverPlansAndSecretTricks · 02/11/2015 20:34

Glitter that sounds fascinating! I'd love to look up the blog if you can remember the name. I've often felt there was something that felt almost aggressive about the American heavy tipping culture. (Don't hate me American readers, I am mostly a big fan of the U.S.)

And yes £20 tip for a haircut is way too much in the UK.

slightlyglitterpaned · 03/11/2015 19:39

jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-restaurant-part-1-overview/

This is the first blog - gives a good summary if you don't have time to read them all.