The property market looks like its going to collapse and that's a good thing

[Ellreejeee]

Surely this madness is going to end soon and it will benefit the country?

Shed for sale in Somerset in someone back garden for 150k. Look at the pictures www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-37137567.html

London is insane, most overvalued many are saying www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34676643

The average london house has earnt 2 pounds an hour for the last decade. And that's tax free if its your own home!

Ubik I think that if you do the sums not having the phone, the Sky package, the car, the clothes, holidays, etc really does make a difference.It may not be enough to buy the house but it will be enough to buy a home, substantially boost deposit savings.

The other difference I have noticed is that, outside of London, maybe the SE in general. young people don't want to buy a 1 bed flat and then move up the ladder, they want a family home with all the trimmings, NOW! Aspirations have really changed.

As MrsDV says, the real problem is the cost of renting. If the rental market were stable then there would be less of an issue, less of a need to own.

I know that is possible, we rented for decades. But in some places, again maybe London and the SE, housing pressures don't allow that to happen.

I do wonder if people prioritise buying a house like they used to. I remember thinking that it would forever be out of reach for us. We saved like maniacs to buy our first house, which was a wreck. We went without nearly all extras for a good few years. My dniece who wants a house like ours (this is our third move!), both her and oh have iPhone 6 on £50 a month contract, everything designer, two holidays abroad every year etc. At least £10k that could go towards a deposit starter homes around £120k in cheapest area, but she wants to enjoy life now, which I get but you can't have everything.

Whilst demand outstrips supply there will be no crash.
The property market in london is very different due to the foreign investors but local towns seem to be bouyant, and prices arent ridiculous.

Someone I know was bemoaning the fate of younger people trying to buy nowadays and saying how tough they have it. That was my point. In comparison, actually, it's not tougher. As Daylight said, the particular couple she was talking about have all those same things (holidays, mini-breaks, meals out, phone packages, Sky deals), which would have been way out of reach of us 30+ years ago (if some of that had even been invented). If you were lucky enough to buy then, you knew you were signing up to a decade of staying home playing Scrabble in the evenings.

Aspirations have changed through necessity. The cost of housing means that it takes longer to save a deposit and make your way to a point in your career to be able to obtain a realistic mortgage.

In the meantime life happens. Relocating to achieve that salary means paying rentals, redundancies, sickness/injury are all things that have affected my own and people in my social circles chances of being able to buy any younger. The only people I know who bought in their 20's had significant help from their families which is obviously not an option for everyone.

Waiting till your 30's/40's to buy often means you can't get a two up two down/one bed flat doer-upper as you've had to make the choice on whether or not to start a family, especially as women have a limited time period. This also means that even those who choose to put off children till they've bought have to consider schools etc because they haven't the luxury of time to plan to wait another 5 years till they can move up another rung on the ladder.

My parents lent me the deposit for my first house, but I had to pay them back at the going interest rate on top of my monthly mortgage repayments.

That was my point. In comparison, actually, it's not tougher.

The av salary: av house price ration has changed dramatically. In that sense it's much tougher.

As Daylight said, the particular couple she was talking about have all those same things (holidays, mini-breaks, meals out, phone packages, Sky deals), which would have been way out of reach of us 30+ years ago (if some of that had even been invented).

OTOH, lots of intending FTBs don't spend on those things, in fact embrace extreme frugalteering, and still struggle to get a toehold on the ladder. A majority of the homeowners I know who were born in the 70s or 80s either spent years scrimping and planning to do it OR just cashed a fat cheque from family; very little middle ground.

The generalising is not very helpful.

ratio not ration

Agree that aspirations have changed. My parents bought a grotty flat - and had nothing. No carpets, furniture, fridge, heating, let alone cars holidays luxuries. ALL the money went on the mortgage.

After six years they got a house - but miles away from where they wanted to be - and my dad bought a scooter because any other commuting was impossible, (he had previously cycled).

People won't do that now. They expect furniture, heating, a car, a freezer, holidays, tv, nice clothes - whatever. Fair enough but then it takes longer to save.

I also don't think there is any real understanding of the costs and traps involved in owning a property. The assumption by those who don't own is that once you have your house it is all "free money". True you don't have the dreadful landlord relationship and the insecurity that goes with it but the maintenance costs are horrific and the costs of moving huge. If your neighbour is a nieghbour from hell or they build a dog food factory at the end of your road there is nothing you can do. No-one is going to buy your house for what you paid for it. Moving will cost you thousands in tax, fees etc - unless you rent it out and become a big, bad landlord.

I'm not saying pity the homeowners but I am saying that it is not as simple as it seems.

I can't see any signs of a crash. Mortgage lending rates and multiples are steady. Housebuilding rates are falling. The population is at an all-time historic high and there is a national debate about immigration rates.

my friend had an open house for their flat, within 5 mins walk of a station for a SE commuter town. They had 20 people come to look at it. Those aren't the signals of a market on the brink of collapse

People won't do that now. They expect furniture, heating,

Bastards! Modest heating and some second furniture? Burn them.

I bought in my mid 30s by the way - and the value fell by 30% in a year and interest rates went up to the value of my salary. My only option was to take a lodger, then to rent out altogether and live abroad in a grotty, cheap room.

The rent I earned didn't cover the mortgage so I carried on paying from my salary and, as I said, lived in a room elsewhere. I was sad about my lovely new flat but it was that or lose it and still be saddled with a huge mortgage.

Hence I had kids in my very late 30's and 40's.

No-one is saying they shouldn't expect heating - that's just stupid. What I was saying - and others is that to own people had to go without these things and knew it. It wasn't great - and I am certainly not advocating it - but the attitude that it was "easy" then is simply not true.

I hope whoever buys that she'd firstly knocks it down and builds a big three story brick house in the vendors back garden. Secondly that they have loud all night parties and parking disputes.

Strawberry The ftb's that don't spend as much on that stuff that I know of tend to be buying sooner, that was my point really. Dniece wants and could afford a house, but wants to spend now on other stuff.

But you're making it sound like there is no problem Daylight.

There is a problem. I can see it all around me. The problem is middle-paid, financially cautious people who despite their best efforts STILL can't buy and are stuck near London or SE based jobs paying huge rents in their late 30s.

I thank my lucky stars every day that I'm not one of them.

Admittedly, there's a regional element to it. I'm aghast at how many people are just pointing the finger at assumed lavish spending, though.

Fucking hell, I object to being referred to as an older poster who has paid off their mortgage! Only one of those is true and I still have 14 and 12 year old children to look out for.

I can't see a crash coming either. What constitutes an actual crash though, as opposed to a stagnant market and some levelling out? Crashes usually only happen on the back of major game-changing events and general economic instability. While interest rates remain low and the economy is steadily on the way back up and BTL is still the investment of choice for the almost retired with poorly performing pensions I can't see any major corrections happening any time soon.

I lived in London 20 odd years ago and couldn't afford to buy there either.

I think you are absolutely right BlueJug and what you've said mirrors my own experience.

The London market is insane mainly due to a supply and demand issue. Have a look at the top 20 areas for population density in the UK and they are all in London. My London borough has a similar population to my city of birth.
I think the price rises will slow but it's hard to see how a major crash will happen when so few properties are being built where people want to live.

It's not just supply and demand keeping the prices high though is it? It's more complex than that. There are a lot of factors at play.

I'm not sure there'll be a crash but prices might steady a bit.