To think trick or treating should stop before 7pm?

[hibbleddible]

Don't get me wrong: I love Halloween. Treats in, decorations out, pumpkin carved etc.

At 7.15pm I had just got the baby to sleep, and dd1 in bed. Trick or treater's knock and cause the dog to bark and wake the baby. Dd (5) answers the door by herself in pjs, and becomes very excited.

Grrr! I then had two non-sleeping children, plus they cleared me out of the candy which I was planning on scoffing alone after dd went to bed

The thing is it's not actually trick or treat is it, it's knocking on doors with an expectation of being given sweets. But meh whatever really, I never allowed it and I've only ever once opened the door to trick or treaters, all of whom had voices which had already broken, and when I enquired as to their age was told in a sullen voice that they were "fourteen." I sent them on their merry way.

If kids go out with parents and in a group then whatever creates a bit of fun as long as it's to people's houses you know are going to be receptive. But certainly not teenagers or even kids out on their own.

My biggest bugbear is the fireworks, they were going off from around 5:30 pm and I've heard some in the past few minutes. I think there must have been an organised display somewhere but equally there have been several going off around here and will continue to do so for the next two weeks.

They are by far more antisocial than trick or treaters. For the next two weeks I will have to think carefully about whether I go out after dark - a rogue firework (and there are many, let's be honest) could easily be let off in my vacinity and could scare my dog (who is a guide dog) to the extent that he might never work again, for instance. That's an extreme example but many animals are terrified of fireworks, and I've known of several guide dog owners who have had fireworks thrown at them by kids messing about, or even been spooked by fireworks going off close by. And that's before we get to the number of injuries and life-changing burns which will occur as a result of fireworks over the next couple of weeks. They should be banned other than for public, licenced displays.....

I am in the US and people who get egged are well known local Halloween Grinches. The eggers tend to be aged 12/13ish.

Which means they are old enough to know better.

Classic victim blaming and nasty not to mention criminal behaviour.

Many years ago it was all about general agricultural mischief, cow tipping and moving cattle to the wrong fields, etc. by youths wearing masks, and often a community bonfire. It was predominantly a rural thing. If costumes or masks were worn it was for protection from the spirits or the fairies who were believed to roam the earth at this time, or in commemoration of those spirits. There was probably a good deal of poitin imbibed. Those who wandered the byways and boreens asked for food, in imitation of the souls of the dead returning to their homes and being fed as the belief went. Those who gave food were supposed to bring luck upon their homes. Presumably those who didn't would get a little bad luck as the revellers left.

It was in ancient times believed to be an occasion when portals between the present, past and future were open, hence the tie-in with the Christian feasts of All Saints and All Souls, and people used to engage in divination games and wear masks, which granted them alternative identities, sometimes related to the dead. Harvested apples and nuts were commonly used in divination games when I was a child we used to go around collecting apples and nuts. There are traditional foods reserved for Halloween colcannon, and barmbrack with a ring and other tokens baked in, predicting for the finder luck or marriage or money or a visit to the dentist in the future.

It was also believed that the Otherworld boundaries became permeable at this time, so the fairies were out in force, and of course they are mischievous beings. The carving of turnips was related to the focus on the dead in Purgatory and also the creatures of the otherworld.

Obviously many elements of the holiday conflicted with the teachings of organised religion and churches tried to put a damper on traditional Halloween in the 19th century. However, the most they achieved in Scotland and Ireland was a merger of two sets of beliefs. Church and state were more successful in England. Non-Conformist and fundamentalist Protestant churches were particularly opposed to Halloween because they did not subscribe to the Catholic idea of praying for the dead who may have been in Purgatory awaiting release into Heaven. The basic premise of All Hallows the feast days of All Saints and All Souls was that Purgatory existed and souls were in an intermediate position, dead but neither in Heaven or Hell. (DD4 has a friend whose family shuns Halloween for this reason). In England, Guy Fawkes eclipsed Halloween and placed the traditional seasonal revelry in a political and sectarian context, with unfortunate results for some.

only knock if there's a little pumpkin, keep the pumpkin lit until you've had enough.

It's not difficult really is it? so much angst.

lit!

foragogo - pity no-one told the kids round us about that then?

First year we've had a pumpkin and DD2.8 was really excited about putting it out. Lived here 8 years and never had 1 before. By the time she went up to bed we'd had 8 or so groups (we live on one of the mainer routes in the village) so we blew out the pumpkin and no more came. Perfect scenario. If all trick or treaters were that we'll behaved I think the practice would have a better reputation.

It's not criminal behaviour -- egging is not pleasant and of course people should know better, but kids of 12/13 are not all model citizens. If they are not egging houses then those inclined to delinquency will be doing something else, on another night. Most gang taggers are that age.

If you don't participate, you leave the streets open to those who are up to no good. The alternative to sitting at home in the dark gnashing your teeth at the horribleness of it is to appreciate that it is fun and let your children participate. Children only throw eggs or spray graffitti when they are sure they won't be seen, unless they are total eejits. So get out there and nudge the egg throwers away. Accusations of 'victim blaming' are lazy responses. If you don't like seeing your streets overrun by people whose behaviour you disapprove of, then go out yourself, with your children. Nothing makes 12 year olds more reluctant to be out and about than the idea that they are sharing space with families of young children.

I give out candy to anyone who knocks. I think there is a place in Halloween for boys whose voices have broken just as I think there is a place in Halloween for girls of 13 who wear size 36DD bras. There are far worse things they could be doing than knocking on doors looking for candy. In fact, I consider that quite charming.

We get fireworks until the wee hours on the 4th and 5th of July and also if a local sports team wins a national championship. None at Halloween. There were never fireworks of any kind in Ireland when I was growing up, thanks to the IRA. They are banned in my US state. So everyone and his uncle drives next door and loads up.

I think 8pm. We just take in our pumpkin. My kids didn't go out. They dressed up and excitedly gave out sweets. I just find it all a bit odd saying all year to my kids they can't speak to or take sweets from strangers...but then encourage them to knock at strangers doors on halloween!

Accusations of 'victim blaming' are lazy responses

No it certainly isn't. Saying that others should participate when they don't want to is a ridiculous attitude.

As previously has been said, people have just as much right to not participate as those that do!

I shouldn't have to take part in something that I don't want to just to stop some people's children's anti social behavior. Not that it is easy for some to do that anyway.

not that you will take any of this on board I'm sure

If you don't like seeing your streets overrun by people whose behaviour you disapprove of, then go out yourself, with your children.

Two huge assumptions there. One that people are able to go out and two that everyone has children.

Well DH and I have just closed the front door. We have given out sweets, toys and fruit (mandarin oranges that I drew pumpkin faces on all fing morning). It's been an amazing night and everyone was lovely apart from a couple of people from the homeless shelter who were upset because they wanted to sit on our steps.

The kids (ages 2 and 4) went to bed at 6:45 and have slept through it all. The walls to our home are solid brick and about 2ft deep. We are here in the US and everyone of all ages have been out celebrating. As our town is extremely walkable a lot of people take the train in to trick or treat here. There are also a lot of marathon people staying in local hotels this year who took their kids out locally.

DD had a great time handing out sweets to her school friends and when we walked around uptown earlier in the evening I was so proud of both DC for their good manners of always asking for a 'trick or treat', only taking one sweet and saying thank you.

Hmm. Past two am and still lots of people out on the street. I just had a rocket fired at my car, from a two foot range, as I was driving DD home from a party. Lots of sirens and we passed at least half a dozen police cars and a couple of ambulances. It's not fun. No trick or treaters though. It might be because DH gives them apples.

It's 10:30pm here and so many people are out. The police have their road blocks up to stop drink drivers leaving town. The tickets they issue for open container violations and urinating in the streets are $2500 and $1500 respectively. Hoping they can issue a few to recoup the costs incurred by the town for moving the town celebrations to the Saturday. Some people started drinking at 11am.

Everybody has rights. Everybody has the right to complain when their neighbourhood is full of teens pelting your houses with eggs and spray painting walls, etc.

Everybody also has the right to use their brains and figure out a way to make life more pleasant, and work together to make that happen.

Unless you find standing on your rights and calling yourself a victim and complaining more enjoyable than anything else, that is.

There is nothing to stop adults dressing up and walking around their local streets. There is nothing wrong with joining other adults you know and trick or treating with them and their children. I have seen some groups with a ratio of adults to toddlers of 6:1.

Round here, it's very civilised. T or Ts only visit houses that have a pumpkin out.
I think the problem you have. OP is that you think everyone will behave exactly like you, and society doesn't work that way.
My babies slept late, napped in the afternoon and were happily awake at 9pm.

do you really take a baby out until 7.45?

Are you channelling my Grandmother?

On egging...
Last night our elderly neighbour rang me in tears.
I popped round and some shits had egged her house and thrown kitchen roll everywhere. It was about 7pm.
I helped her clean it up and then with her permission rang non emergency police to report it. Community police were lovely and even discussed looking at other neighbours security cameras.
The impact of egging will stay with my neighbour for some time I know and I am angry on her behalf.

My neighbour should have been sitting in the dark as she tearfully said to me taking the blame.
Why the bloody hell should she?

No, she shouldn't. I hated Halloween in the area of the NW we lived in for years, it was violent and vandalism was rampant, all the littlies were in side by 6pm and the teenagers took over. Even had a Halloween riot one year.
If you don't want to opt in, then you should be left in peace.

In some areas local shops refuse to sell eggs to minors for the days befoe and after Halloween. Seems sensible to me.

We've just had our first Aussie Halloween and it's only JUST catching on here so had a very funny time searching for decorated houses in a small seaside town....DID find some...about 6 I think. The best was the small, elderly Japanese woman who'd spattered red paint all up the sides of her house and had the most evil looking masks up on the shed....she was thrilled we came and gave all the kids the loveliest treats

Some people really enjoy it and it connects them to their community.

I would be so ashamed of any child of mine if they egged a house.
Hopefully they never will but heaven help them if they did and I caught them or found out.....

We are in the North of Scotland and I have never heard of there being any trouble with egging or "tricks". The children round here only go to houses where they are known. Ds3 (9) went to two of our neighbours by himself and I walked him to a friends house a bit further away then drove him over to my sisters. Every child we had at the door was with a parent and known to us. I think 8pm is a reasonable time to finish.

The problem is, some people see Halloween as an excuse for anti-social behaviour. It is not on to egg/flour/tp peoples houses, ever, and most of the population totally get that.

I think we're lucky in that it all seems very good natured here, kids seem to stick to the lit pumpkin rule and are generally polite.

We had our first set of trick or treaters at 4.10pm (wasn't even dark) and the last set at 8.45pm but we do encourage it by having a graveyard set up in the front garden so I cant start complaining when we get visitors .

I blew the pumpkins out at 8.30 so the last lot came just after that. Weirdly, we didn't see many teens at all, the big bonfire display was last night too so I guess that's where they all were.

Seven is too early in our world, we didn't get back from shopping til 645pm. Then had trick or treaters around till about 8. All very nice.

Fireworks til midnight pissed me off though