To wonder why my DM always needs to put me down all the time?

[GlitteryRollerGirl]

I hadn't realised until recently, but she's been doing it all of my life. She speaks to me in a way that she'd never speak to anyone else, probably because she'd be told to fuck off if she ever tried it. It's hard to explain because she's never actually overtly nasty, it's more subtle little digs designed to slowly undermine my confidence. Like if I try and help her with something she'll tell me that I'm doing it wrong and that I'm hopeless that kind of thing. If I try to stand up for myself I'm shouted down and told to shut up.

A bit of backstory, she's always been a little difficult. She's overbearing, loves interfering and likes to always be right. She's also very moody, her moods can change in an instant and when they do she's like a black hole of darkness sucking the life out of everyone. She has epic sulks where she passive aggressively punishes everyone for some perceived slight, but you'll never know what you did wrong. Ive often felt that she probably has undiagnosed mental health issues, she didn't have a great early childhood and through no fault of their own she and her siblings were passed around various family members due to my GP's being unable to care for them at that time.

So anyway that's it. She's not a bad mother, if I was ill or had problem and phoned her at 3am she'd be around to help me in an instant. I've never wanted for anything in life really, but it's like she uses me to help her feel better about herself. She's absolutely hate me being assertive or even airing an opinion that's different to her own. I don't have DC's of my own but if I ever did I can't imagine putting them down all the time like she does me.

Why does she treat me like this?

I think you've answered your own question there - people do this to convince themselves they're better than other people. She doesn't like to think that you could help her with anything, because that would mean you might be better at it than she is, hence the shouting you down and telling you you're doing it wrong. She sounds very competitive and like she needs to be in control of every situation.

She does like to be in control of every situation and becomes almost hysterically anxious if she's not.

YANBU at all. My sister is exactly the same. Puts people down, embarrasses them in very subtle ways. Needs to be in control all the time. Even when she's visiting us she needs to be in the kitchen taking over the cooking.
I've learnt to ignore her and remind myself its more about her issues then anything that I'm lacking.

Well one thing that is great is that you are aware of it and have sussed it out.

Well fucking done!

A lot of people are like this imo but it hurts even more when it's your own mother. You won't be like this to any dc in the future, that's of course if you should choose to have them, but you should maintain a distance. You understand the dynamic so act accordingly. People like that will never to told so don't waste your energy.

My mother is like this. I stopped contact with her a few years ago. It's the best thing I ever did.

My mum was like this, I don't think she even realised she was doing this, tbh. But it was a very regular stream of criticism, backwards compliments and guilt trips. Like yours, good in a crisis, but not for my self esteem.
I remember the day things started to change. I'd not long had ds2 and I wasn't well and was struggling. She was helping me, but with the negative flow of gentle insults coming daily. One day she said "Now I don't mean to critictical but...."
So I cut her off with "So don't be then."
She looked like she'd just been slapped. It was something trivial about cleaning, but I was on two hours sleep a night, managing a 3 year old and baby, recovering from EMCS and so what if my house wasn't spotless? That's WHY she was turning up regularly after all.
Every time she's started on a negative since I have cut her off. There have been a lot less of them and our relationship feels much more balanced.

The needs to control is constant. If you ever go anywhere with her she will attempt to dictate the entire itinary. Instead of saying, "what shall we do now" she will just take over and say "we're doing this, this and this". If you disagree or suggest something different a sulk ensues. We went on a family members hen do a few years back and she tried to take over that, when I told her it wasn't her place she flew into a huff with me.

Years ago I remember a big family holiday, loads of us went and she spent most of it in a sulk because her attempts to take over that were rebuffed.

Unsurprisingly I no longer go anywhere with her.

I think the reason for your mother's self-centredness and need for control lies in her very sad upbringing, which has left her emotionally damaged. Being passed around various relatives for care during her crucial childhood years rather than having a permanent, secure home with her own parents, has left her with a long-term lack of self-esteem and feeling of insignificance. It is very common for people who have had an unsatisfactory childhood to try to compensate for it - often unconsciously - when they have a family of their own. It sounds to me as if your mother is trying to make up for her deep feelings of insignificance as a child by trying to be all-important as a mother. Any hint of disagreement or rebellion from you threatens her (very fragile) sense of self-esteem and brings back early feelings of abandonment and fear. Hence the need for control - for her, it is a survival mechanism. It is only relevant within her family situation because it is through her family relationships that she is trying to make up for her early childhood experience.

It is very difficult to stand back and see your parents as separate, fallible people whose own childhoods have shaped the way they treat us, but I think this is what you have to try to do. Without giving in to your mother - which would be bad for you - I would try to be aware of why she is acting like this and try to either pre-empt or diffuse problems before they get to boiling point. Try to cultivate a sense of humour about minor things - laugh or don't react when she criticises you. If you can't manage this, see less of her but make a big effort when you do. Basically, be the adult here, unfair though that may be!

We don't get to choose our parents and sometimes we are dealt a difficult hand. However, our relationship with our mother is so important, for good or ill, that I would always advise trying to make it work to some degree, not least for our own mental health. You say your mother never fails you in times of need, so she has got one thing very right. Hopefully you have something to build on.

Her upbringing wasnt that sad, really. Yes there was a lot of passing from pillar to post but it was always around family members. My GP's had very legitimate reasons for not being able to look after them at that time. My grandmother was very unwell and spent a long time in hospital. My grandfather had to work shifts. Now there would probably more support ina situation like that, but then it was either rely on family or put them into care. GM eventually recovered and they all returned home and DM lived there up until she got married.

It's unfortunate but as far as I'm aware very common for children to be farmed out to other relatives back then.

My DM can be like this although it's calmed down since I've started being consistently assertive and pulling her up on it. It's pretty emotionally tiring though to confront every little thing when you're used to just letting it slide and ignoring it. For me it's worth it though because the alternative would be to limit contact and that would come at the cost of a fantastic wider family.

I think, for my DM, it's a combination of being insecure and never breaking the habit of treating me like a disobedient child. She was very authoritarian as a parent and viewed any misbehaviour (even basic child things like disliking tuna and not wanting to eat it) as direct defiance and me purposefully undermining her as a mother. She definitely still thinks like that and also wants to be a picture perfect family so will try to micromanage everyone e.g. insisting that we had to sing Christmas carols at Christmas even though no-one else wanted to because it had to be "perfect".

Does that sound familiar, OP or am I on a completely different track?

You're absolutely right, Dawn. The OP's mother was subjected to severe emotional neglect from her parents (they weren't there!) and is now passing on the consequences of that to her daughter. Both mother and daughter have suffered, and are suffering, in different ways. To quote some other lines from Larkin:
" But they were fucked up in their turn

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf"

It is not easy to overturn emotional patterns that have been set in early childhood. Even with therapy, it is not always possible. I am not saying that the OP should give in to her mother's demands - just to try to get the best relationship with her she can.

OP - I've just read your latest post - I didn't see it before. I'm in no way blaming your grandparents for not being able to look after your mother - your grandmother was ill and in hospital. But the emotional effects of being "farmed out to other relatives" may have been considerable to the children involved plus, of course, the knowledge that their mother was severely ill and unable to look after them. Very worrying and insecure for young children.

OP my mother is similar in that she speaks to me in a way in which she wouldn't dream of speaking to anyone else. She also spoke to my grandmother like that. I can remember wincing at her tone of voice when she spoke to my grandmother and I know other people were shocked too.

Like you, I have wondered about mental health problems. Sometimes she is lovely, other times she is unbelievably nasty. She does very kind things for us, but will snap at me and criticise everything I do or say. I can't go no contact because my father is not well and I want to be around for him.

Everything my DH (golden boy!) does is wonderful, everything I do is wrong. She thinks he knows everything, yet I am more highly qualified than he is.

Like your mother she had a disrupted childhood. She was very loved, but her father died when she was a baby and my grandmother had to work and leave my mother with her grandmother. Later, she had a lovely stepfather, but he suffered with bad health too and died young.

I love my mother, but I don't like being with her. It's very sad, I would love to have a close relationship with her, but it's impossible.

My mother is controlling and moody too. I know it annoys her that my father, husband and I all have degrees and she doesn't, but I can't help that.

I don't think there is a solution. My DM is in her seventies and not likely to change now. I just stand up for myself quietly, I'm not getting into an argument.

Years ago I remember a big family holiday, loads of us went and she spent most of it in a sulk because her attempts to take over that were rebuffed.

Christmas is like this for us now. With me finally growing a spine and my DDs being teens and 20s we manage to over-ride DMs attempts to control situations by cheerfully getting on with things the way we do them. She sulks; but in a way we can deal with using humor.

Yes, OneFlew that does sound very similar. Lots of micromanagement of our lives, telling us what we should do and getting horribly offended when we don't do it. It extends to every aspect of our lives.

Tokelu my DM also gets very jealous of other peoples lives as well.

Oh, and the last few years she has just gone home early.

I was going to put a after that, but it's sad isn't it? Not funny. I'd prefer it if things weren't like that.

I think trying to have a sense of humour about it, when you can, is a very sane reaction, EWD.

I had this for years from my mother too and I came to the conclusion that due to her own insecurity, it made her feel better to put me down.

Like some other posters, I have not been in contact with her for some time now. I decided she would never change, I couldn't cope with it very well and I didn't need to.

But I absolutely don't believe in children allowing themselves to be sacrificial lambs, Dawn. I think they should stand up for themselves, and, if necessary, cut down some contact if they find it difficult to do this. Humour helps in some situations, as in EWD's post, because humour can be assertive as well as lowering the emotional temperature.

The reason I think looking to the origin of this kind of behaviour is important is that, by understanding that it stems from the mother's own background, the daughter can realise that she is not the cause which depersonalises the behaviour and makes it easier to confront and deal with. There is often a lot of guilt in mother/daughter relationships and it is important that, in this situation, the daughter realises that she is not to blame.

PS - sorry for the unwanted lesson on literary criticism.

I think distancing myself is something that I need to consider, but I am of the opinion that she doesn't really realise that she's doing. It's more of an automatic defence mechanism.

OP, my mother was like this. She too had a bad childhood (her mother was severely mentally ill).

My mother is now in a nursing home with dementia, and has been for several years. But I still jump when the phone rings - Pavlovian reaction due to years of picking up and finding her in vicious mood on the other end.