Was AIBU re our cleaner

[Lipstickandlashes]

DH and I are in two minds whether we were too harsh so genuinely seeking opinions.

We've used the same agency for the last five years. During that time we've had two different cleaners (both excellent) for a couple of hours twice a week.

Four weeks ago our regular cleaner (with us for two years) got a new job outside the industry so the owner of the agency assigned a new lady.

The cleaning hasn't been quite as good as previously but I put that down to newness and getting used to the property etc.

However, yesterday I came home and immediately clocked that something was off as the door wasn't double locked as usual. I went inside and could tell someone had been in the house (things moved around a bit) but only one of the bathrooms had been "cleaned" (still filthy), the carpet hadn't been hoovered and the draining board was full of still-dirty plates that looked like they'd been rinsed without detergent and heaped up, in the process cracking our teapot.

No note left about the breakage or lack of cleaning (e.g. she'd been called away in an emergency) all really weird, so I called the agency owner.

After she'd made several calls she established that our normal cleaner had decided to go on holiday and given our house keys to her "best friend" to do the job.

Neither we, nor the agency owner, have ever met this person or have a clue who they are.

Not only was the flat uncleaned and our things broken but we have two rescue cats who can't go outside; luckily they hid under the bed but we'd have been devastated if they'd escaped.

So in short I was fucking fuming that a stranger had been in our home and told the agency owner (I was cross but civil) that we'd no longer need her company's services.

DH was in full agreement but thought this morning we may have been too harsh as it was one of her employees who was a dick, not her, and that could happen to any of us. My feeling is that as owner, it's her responsibility to supply safe, sensible people and we clearly can't trust her to do that any longer.

AIBU?

The whole point of going through an agency rather than hiring direct is so that if something goes wrong, the agency is accountable. Your fee to them will also include insurance so absolutely bill the locksmith back to them, along with a bill for the broken bits and pieces.

You were right. I thought the whole point of using an agency was that they arranged cover if your usual cleaner couldn't make it.

Its shocking that someone has been given a key to your home without you knowing about it. However, it sounds like you left a disgusting mess yourself - should you really be leaving your filthy, unrinsed dishes for someone else to clean and then blaming them for not doing it?? I used to clean houses for the elderly when I was at uni, and no one ever expected me to do their dirty dishes. The houses I cleaned were always in a decent state for me to clean. If anyone had been that disrespectful to me, I would have walked out and not came back. The teapot cracked because of your own mucky habits, not because of the cleaner.

Certain things like dirty dishes left congealing from the previous night (and skidmarks in the loo etc) are beyond what a cleaner should do - have some kindness towards a human being in a less fortunate situation than you trying to make a living. All of the clients I had treated me with respect and kindness, so, unsurprisingly, I valued their custom and went the extra mile for them.

Leaving plates out to be washed isn't a disgusting mess - and it's quite standard under some cleaning contracts for washing up to be part of the deal, the same way that some cleaners also do ironing as well.

You should be glad you never worked as a school clear harshbuttrue - if you think skid marks in a home toilet are bad then you definitely don't want to see what I've cleared up after 500 teenage boys...

Lipstickandlashes try Streatham Mum's Network on Facebook... it's quite big and someone may have a good recommendation for you on there.

i think im poor.....its all about nannys and cleaners today :)

Harsh I think it's pretty standard for cleaners to do simple washing up. I have a dishwasher, but if I leave a dirty cup and plate on the side because the dishwasher is running then my cleaner washes them even though I don't expect her to (or particularly want her to),

As you live in London, I think you should change the locks, complain to the agency, and call the police.
Oh and charge the lock changing to the agency.
Tell them if they dont pay you will put exactly what happened with them all over the internet.

I would also charge the agency for the teapot/locks etc and take them to small claims of the didn't pay

Thanks snowgirl - and harsh we certainly do not leave our home in a state, we leave a few, rinsed, breakfast things on the side because we've loaded and run the dishwasher ourselves that morning before we go to work to make the cleaner's life easier. All tasks, including ironing, are agreed with the agency and we clean the house ourselves between every visit.

But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a cleaner - who we paid well above the market rate, btw - to do some actual cleaning; it's a child free, practically mess free flat. We're not sending her down a fucking mine.

Lisbeth I wondered about the police; may do a quick 101 just to log it.

Thanks Curly I'll take a look

Lol @ harsh mn is full of arseholes these days.
Op you were right to be annoyed

Well Lipstick and lashes, obviously the person who you're moaning about didn't feel that she wanted to do your dishes! You are now saying that they were rinsed, but in your original post you said that SHE rinsed them, implying that they weren't rinsed. She's a human being and shouldn't be expected to be degraded. And blaming her for breaking your teapot - come on, don't be so ridiculous!!!

With an attitude like yours (including the angry swearing in your post above), I doubt a good cleaner will stay for long so you'd be as well to keep using agencies and they can just keep sending replacements. Good, trustworthy cleaners are worth their weight in gold - treat them like crap and act like Lady Muck and you'll constantly be posting on here wondering why you can't get "the help" to stick around these days.

I think harsh is projecting

And, yes, Only here for the camping, Mumsnet is full of arseholes these days! Arseholes who throw in swearwords when someone disagrees with them. Sorry, but when you post in AIBU, you can expect to have some people to say that you are actually being U. If you don't want to hear it, then post in a forum called something like "Tell me I'm right".

Sorry harsh but the op had a complete stranger some into her home and break stuff. I think she has right to feel upset by that. It doesn't make her lady muck

Yeah thanks harsh - if you'd actually read the post, I DIDN'T want the person to do my dishes. He/she was a stranger in my flat!

My definition of rinse is that no hot water/detergent/scrubbing were employed. This was definitely the case with the stuff on the draining board.

And FYI, I've had three cleaners over the last ten years. Two retired (both well into their seventies) and my last one has just got a job as an interior designer; she cleaned to support herself though uni, and we've actually hired her to help redesign a couple of our rooms.

Sorry you've had bad employers, but we're definitely not.

Harshbuttrue, you're being ridiculous. Washing dishes is clearly not a disgusting or demeaning job, and anyone with half a brain knows that you don't pile crockery up in such a way that it causes some of it to crack. And you've artistically forgotten to mention the fact that this cleaner didn't clean the bathroom properly, hadn't hoovered the carpets, and left another bathroom uncleaned. Or are you saying those aren't jobs that a cleaner should be expected to do either.

OP, it seems to me you're being over-generous in suggesting this wasn't the agency's fault. If they had done what they promised to do and had a sensible arrangement for keeping keys safe between visits, this couldn't have happened.

What is the point running around cleaning up for the cleaner to clean afterwards? I have a cleaner once a week and I was v specific that I expected her to clean and tidy is to do any jobs that needed doing. Whilst my house is far from being a hovel, that might mean doing a few dishes! By the way OP I don't think you are being unreasonable on this one. I would however perhaps have given the agency the chance to redeem itself before axing it completely especially if they have been good for a long time.

Harsh did you read the OP? It wasn't a 'good cleaner' - it was a complete stranger, unknown and unreferenced to boot....

I think the trouble is that in using an agency rather than a private company the cleaners are self-employed and they will know that as independent contractors rather than employees of said agency they actually can substitute themselves with another person to do the work (this is withinHMRC's criteria of 'self-employed')

The agencies are cheaper than private companies because they don't have the associated payroll costs of employing their staff directly (ie holiday pay and other employees' statutory obligations) they must go to great lengths to show HMRC they are not employing these people to avoid these costs.

We are a private company and have to implement the costs of employing our staff directly and these must be passed on to the customer but, although our services are nowhere near as cheap as agency services, we are legally allowed to train and equip our employees plus they must represent us and our company and follow our direct instructions. Agency staff do not have to do these things and are autonomous. Worst case scenario bourne out by the OP's story. I would not want to send people into client's home without knowing they are our employees for this very reason but I can also see the appeal of not paying out the associated costs of employing the staff, you could sell services so much cheaper if your staff are self-employed, having said that we are always booked up anyway unless we create spaces with a new hire, so price seems to be the last thing people consider when hiring a cleaning service. It's beggar to find decent staff though, and it takes a long time to train them in our methods, I do get why some go for the agency business model it's just easier and cheaper to run, it's just that the service level has to suffer when they are not employed by the business owner.

If go radio fucking mental at the agency - and get locks changed and claim on their insurance.

Also - washing up is fairly standard. I'd rather our cleaner DIDNT do it seeing as we have a dishwasher but if the dishwasher has finished a load when she arrives she will empty it and then wash up the breakfast plates that were waiting to go in, rather than putting them in the now empty DW.

Thanks Dangly I didn't realise that - that's useful for the future. I'm going to be so, so careful with this next hire.

Dangly - that's rubbish!

That is ONE of the criteria that HMRC uses in order to determine whether someone is self employed or not, but not the only one.

There are MANY jobs where a self employed person cannot send another person in to replace them.

Dangly does not say it is the only criterion. She does make a good point about training and the some of the differences between agency and employer though.