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AIBU?

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Original poster

God-bothering at work

456 replies

WhereToSheNow · 25/10/2015 15:40

New MD hired his buddy/neighbour 6 months ago for a few hours a week to act as a Management Consultant.

The Management Consultant, who we call "Pokey" (because he keeps jabbing us in the arm) has some sort of official capacity within the Baptist Church, and his website is all about the application of his faith within business.

I didn't have a problem with that, as he hadn't mentioned religion.... until last week.

He attended a "World Leadership Course" and emailed us his notes, with several quotes about God and Jesus, telling us to read them and "feel free to ask any questions". In a meeting the following day, he asked us what we thought of his email.

I told him that I don't want to be included in emails that reference any religion/god, at which point he became very defensive.

Later that day I received another email where he said that he was sorry if the contents of his previous email had offended me, but that he hoped I would gain some insight that would assist me in my professional or personal life.

AIBU to think that my work should a) be a secular space and b) my personal life is none of his business!

OP posts:
LovedAndHated · 28/10/2015 11:43

Sorry, ^^ that was to Apricot.

ApricotSorbet99 · 28/10/2015 11:45

There is a difference between "giving advice" and "doing your best to correct them".

If I assert something as fact, I offer up the evidence.

If I personally suspect something is true but have no evidence that it is, I say so.

That's where we differ.

But honestly, the fact that you have personally linked "dysfunctional thinking" with lack of belief in a god is quite astoundingly arrogant.

As if the only "right/normal/healthy" way to think is your way.

Gosh.

ApricotSorbet99 · 28/10/2015 11:51

No, I don't "know" Jesus, Capsium. If he existed at all (looking increasingly unlikely) then he's been dead for almost 2000 years, so how could I?

If you have some EVIDENCE that it's possible to psychically communicate with him, please present it. i would be delighted to give it a go. I have some questions for him. And a few scientists I know might have some too.

But, I do have (apparently) a record of what he (allegedly) said. And it bears zero relationship to what most Christians today think he did.

capsium · 28/10/2015 11:52

Apricot you probably share a lot of my ways of thinking. It is just our motivations may be different. Dysfunctional thinking simply means a way of thinking which causes harm. It is not an insult. Most people would address what they perceived as dysfunctional and challenge it in others. My beliefs affect what I think is dysfunctional and really my comment was related to doing this on a more micro scale than I suspect you were thinking of. At least until I got to know someone better and they knew me.

ovenchips · 28/10/2015 11:59

OP I realise I am late to the party and the thread is changing somewhat(!) but if I have understood correctly it sounds that you were effective when you told him at the meeting that you didn't want to be sent religious info again. The follow up email sounds like he was covering himself as he knew what he did annoyed you. Albeit he couldn't resist one last little reference to his cause. I think evangelicals of all things (not just religion but especially religion) are guilty of doing this.

But sounds to me like you've handled it. Obviously if he continues to do it then that's completely different but doesn't sound to me like he intends to.

So to me it seems like job done. He's done a sales pitch, you're not interested. The end.

As for the arm poking, that's a completely different annoying string to his bow but it's entirely within your power to stop him. Though he obviously needs something more direct than the death stare. I have to say he doesn't sound very self-aware!

Lweji · 28/10/2015 12:03

The more pertinent question is do you know Jesus

I was thinking the same this morning.

We don't know God or Christ. We can only interpret what other people have written about him (yes, inspired by God - although some will consider as direct orders).
Clearly different people and different religions or different branches of the same religion interpret differently and take different approaches.

ApricotSorbet99 · 28/10/2015 12:07

I totally agree that "dysfunctional thinking" are thoughts that cause harm.

So does the medical community.

OCD and anxiety conditions are, in essence, dysfunctional thinking...intrusive thoughts that won't leave you alone. Many, many mental health conditions are based on disordered, dysfunctional thinking.

Unless you are an HCP, what make you think you can help?

No - you're talking about not believing in god. That is a different opinion to yours and you really have no business classing that at "dysfunctional thinking".

If that's not actually what you mean, then you need to give me an example of exactly what you're referring to.

BertrandRussell · 28/10/2015 12:14

"My beliefs affect what I think is dysfunctional"

If you are offering advice to people who do not share your beliefs then that is an incredibly dangerous thing to say- it could be so damaging!

LovedAndHated · 28/10/2015 12:21

Lweji, please, for once, stop hedging your bets among the atheists; stop talking about 'other religions'. What do you know of Christ? If He lives in you and you in Him then of course you know him - you have a relationship with him: what does that feel like?

Bertrand, I find your obsession with troll-hunting damaging. Do you believe yet who I say I am?

hairbrushbedhair · 28/10/2015 12:22

f you nail your colours (collective you, not personal) to the Christian mast then why ignore 99% of what the Christian holy book says?

I neither nail my colours to the christian mast, nor ignore 99% of the book

I am not a Christian. I'm a former Christian who still values the scriptures in an esoteric and symbolic understanding of them.

LovedAndHated · 28/10/2015 12:25

Lweji, John 14:9: "Don't you know me...?"

LovedAndHated · 28/10/2015 12:27

Why, hairbrush, would even give the time of day to scriptures you believe are not God-given?

LovedAndHated · 28/10/2015 12:30

Bert, if you, for example, found the ideology of a transwoman to be dysfunctional (harmful to others, perhaps in this case women) would that not be borne out of your own beliefs?

ApricotSorbet99 · 28/10/2015 12:32

Hairbrush

I have no idea what your personal convictions are....I intimated that when I deliberately specified that my "you" was collective. In other words.....I was addressing people who do call themselves Christians and then proceed to ignore virtually everything Jesus and the Bible says.

That's clearly not you.

hairbrushbedhair · 28/10/2015 12:34

Why, hairbrush, would even give the time of day to scriptures you believe are not God-given?

For the same reason I would read the Dead Sea scrolls, the Vedic scriptures, or Aesops Fables Confused

There's no law that only christians can

LovedAndHated · 28/10/2015 12:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LovedAndHated · 28/10/2015 12:40

*self-proclaims

hairbrushbedhair · 28/10/2015 12:55

hairbrush, I know what you're saying, but the bible self-proclaimed to be the Word of God; you cannot escape its central message from Isaiah right through to Revelation. Why would it interest you?

I don't believe it to be the "word of God" neither do I believe that it's central message is what you think it is.

I think it's collection of books, of which many others could have easily been included but didn't make the cut or weren't known about at the time and men decided to use those at the council of nicea for their own agenda of developing christianity

Lweji · 28/10/2015 13:26

Lweji, please, for once, stop hedging your bets among the atheists; stop talking about 'other religions'. What do you know of Christ? If He lives in you and you in Him then of course you know him - you have a relationship with him: what does that feel like?

I know how it feels to me, but I don't know how it feels to someone else.

I'd be god himself if I knew god (christ, holy ghost) in their entirety. We humans cannot really know god, only what we perceive as god and in what our relationship with him is concerned.
That's pretty much what is taught to Catholics. The holy trinity is a mystery in itself, for example.
I am deeply alarmed by anyone who claims to fully know god.
The Bible itself can be contradictory. Even the Gospels do not exactly match each other. They are versions by different people.

Godstopper · 28/10/2015 13:29

Someone who believes in the world's first zombie, food falling from the sky, strolling across water, virgin births, talking snakes and all the rest of it claims that atheists have dysfunctional thinking? Really.

DadOnIce · 28/10/2015 13:41

Here are all the gods

It's quite an astounding list, and a testament to the creativity and imagination of the human race.

It goes without saying, of course, that they can't all be real and that everybody's creation myth can't be true at the same time. The logical, rational thinker will come to the conclusion that they're all made up.

In the end, it doesn't actually matter what anyone "believes" as, thankfully, the Universe is not affected by this. It is only affected by what is true. And we determine what is true by examining and balancing the evidence.

capsium · 28/10/2015 13:45

But, I do have (apparently) a record of what he (allegedly) said. And it bears zero relationship to what most Christians today think he did.

Apricot but you don't believe (your interpretation of) it is true. It is unpalatable to you. Your statement would show, at least, you acknowledge there can be different understandings and interpretations. Why do you try to 'sell' your unpalatable interpretation? Why dismiss everything that shows God's eternal love for us, as shown by Christ?

If you are offering advice to people who do not share your beliefs then that is an incredibly dangerous thing to say- it could be so damaging

Bert we all share our beliefs, in everything we do (since beliefs inform actions) and all have beliefs which will inevitably differ since we are individuals. We all have different perceptions of the world. Yes, my beliefs are Christian but in a Venn diagram of people's beliefs there would be a lot of overlap between my beliefs and an atheist's or someone of a different religion to my own. Why do you consider my advice to be so dangerous, simply because I'm a Christian?

BertrandRussell · 28/10/2015 13:58

"Why do you consider my advice to be so dangerous, simply because I'm a Christian?"

I don't. Classic word twist there!

You said that your idea of what is dysfunctional is based on your beliefs. And that you would advise accordingly. If the other person does not share your beliefs, or your interpretation of dysfunction, then your advice could be extremely damaging. And, before anyone asks - yes I would be saying exactly the same thing if you were a Muslim.

capsium · 28/10/2015 14:06

Bertrand would you say the same thing if I were an atheist? What about if I were an atheist person who believed in non theistic witchcraft and practised it? What if I were an atheist who held a lot of cultural beliefs? What if I were a professional who believed dogmatically in a certain school of thought and methodology, that professionals, in the same field opposed?

My point is that no advice is completely impartial, even professional advice, it is all based upon beliefs. Yet we still give advice and seek it because we care about each other.

ApricotSorbet99 · 28/10/2015 14:15

Capsium

No. I find the "different interpretations" stuff to be facile and intellectually dishonest.

All it shows is that there are increasing numbers of religious people so profoundly embarrassed by the teachings of their holy books that they clutch at the one explanation that no one can disprove. "It's my interpretation".

Since there's no final arbiter in this discussion and no one can demonstrate what the texts are supposed to communicate it's basically open season. Anyone can believe whatever they like, chalk it up to their interpretation, carry on calling themselves a Christian and expect it to mean something in this society.

In reality, all it highlights is that the term "Christian" means absolutely bugger all in the cold light of day. Everyone just makes it up as they go along...and a large number have the temerity to demand special priviledges for a belief system that they basically invented for themselves.

How can anyone call this "A Christian Nation" when most Christians have all but abandoned everything Christianity says it stands for? If the religion is not good enough for "Christians" why the hell are we still paying it the self-demanded respect that we're all told we should have?

It's a fucking joke.

I have read the Bible, Capsium - beginning to end. I understand that a lot of it is metaphor, poetry, parable and allegory. But an awful lot of it also purports to be fact. And since those "facts" in no way align with the reality I experience (in which the dead don't start walking about again after 3 days) I take the only rational view available to me....that the Bible is an ancient set of books written by extremely primitive and ignorant people who lacked the knowledge we are lucky to have today. Just like every other holy book human beings have created.

The question is not why I "dismiss everything that shows God's eternal love for us" but why on earth, on such a dearth of evidence, you are so persuaded that a) there is a God, and b) that he loves us.