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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About expectations of nursery for a baby

130 replies

Saladeeta · 22/10/2015 22:05

DD has been at nursery for a month now.

Its a lovely charity run nursery.

My elder dd didn't go to nursery till 2.5 so maybe I'm just not used to it. We've moved areas so couldn't use the old nursery. I am hugely respectful of the wonderful job early years professionals do- I'm just not sure if my expectations are wrong for nursery for a baby this age (11 months).

I often got there and despite the weather she's been changed but not had a vest put on, despite spares.
She's come home with quite bad nappy rash, next day they tell me to bring more cream but it turns out they've misplaced it and then not using any despite the soreness.
Key worker often not in the room as covers other parts of the nursery, looks bewildered when I looked concerned.
Different staff members in the room most days, noone gets up to take my baby, even someone does come up,they don't introduce themselves.
I arrive to find her outside in the garden at half five with a streaming cold without her waterproof suit thingy she's got, bottom and legs wet.
Staff pranking each other, laughing about how toys were put in their cars with vodka bottles. This is on site, in front of parents during work hours.
They have put DD to sleep in the bouncer for naps despite me repeatedly asking them not to.
Dirty milk bottles left about over night.
Filthy and I mean filthy bumbo seats uncleaned.
They haven't listened to me about how she eats, IE picking up little bits off the tray at a time and keep telling me how she's a fussy eater and won't eat anything. She's not fussy at home remotely.

Do I need to get a grip?

OP posts:
Notso · 23/10/2015 09:59

I worked in an 'outstanding' nursery. Things that happened on inspection day were not what happened in the day to day running of the nursery. We had two weeks of coaching from the owner to impress the inspectors.
The inspectors spent the vast part of the day in the office with the owner in any case.

BoffinMum · 23/10/2015 10:08

OP

From what you have said, I am glad you have found a potential alternative. I would be tempted to remove my DD from the nursery as soon as possible today, make arrangements for alternative childcare anyway, even if it is a bit disruptive for DD, and ring OFSTED. There are likely to be a number of health and safety breaches you are not seeing and these also need to be looked at. OFSTED could have someone in there on Monday or Tuesday morning if you rang straight away.

I have suggested ringing OFSTED on another thread today as well, and I don't do that lightly, I really don't. But both threads rang warning bells for me (I rang them once myself when a student of mine who had a part-time job in one as an unqualified assistant reported ratios of 1:30 in a nursery of under-fives due to frequent staff absence, and OFSTED were great about investigating and resolving it).

LovelyBranches · 23/10/2015 10:13

My baby has just turned 12 months. He's in nursery and it's a million miles away from what you describe.

BoffinMum · 23/10/2015 10:16

Your child is actually being mildly neglected, from what you are describing.

SurferJet · 23/10/2015 10:25

There will be plenty of settings out there which are judged to require improvement and do a much better job of caring for the children than this one

I'm sure that's true.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 23/10/2015 10:37

Both my kids have been at nursery since about 10 months old. There was the odd incident with DD - she got nappy rash at the drop of a hat and occasionally they would miss a poo. I discovered that they changed the babies on a schedule, unless someone noticed a poo smell, in which case they would do it straight away. So if DD was really busy playing (she was very independent and wouldn't sit still!) the staff wouldn't always notice she'd pooed until the next scheduled change. So I had to learn to unclench a bit about that one. DS on the other hand never gets nappy rash - so much so that although the nursery kept asking me to bring in cream so they had some on hand for him, I didn't remember for months because it just wasn't necessary. And that's a mark of a good nursery - they were concerned that DS would get nappy rash and kept asking me to bring cream just in case.

They collect both children at the door and everyone says hello to them when they come in, asks how they are, peels 3.7yo DD off me, chats away. Everything is clean. Both kids eat better at nursery than they do at home - DD is v picky at home.

BoffinMum · 23/10/2015 10:37

BTW listen to what your daughter is trying to say. Angry probably means she doesn't want to be there, for whatever reason. Either because she doesn't want to be in a group setting, or they are not listening to her needs, or something just feels wrong.

Saladeeta · 23/10/2015 10:47

Thanks all - thanks boffin. I think the room leader calling her angry might concern me the most- I agree it's a horrible sign of how she's feeling. Sad I'm not sure I feel comfortable calling ofstead though- I feel I should give them a chance to put things right. The other setting have given me 2 days from March but have said if I give them a start date they can see about the 3.days. I feel as though I should see of it improves but majority of other posters think take her out asap?

OP posts:
Bumpsadaisie · 23/10/2015 10:53

It sounds awful! Surely with such a little one she should have one or two special people who make a bond with her?

They don't sound like they know what a little baby needs; i.e. to attach to one or two special people and to have their physical needs met.

Saladeeta · 23/10/2015 11:37

I agree bumps. Nursery manager kept talking about how the babies attach to a range of people in the room, IE all the workers and I kept emphasising how she needs to bond with her key worker and then one other person should be focussing on it too, especially in the early months Sad

OP posts:
MintSource · 23/10/2015 11:38

Sounds like you did a great job today with the questions and discussions.

I am sure it's hard to line up something else quickly and you cannot just walk out on work but..... I would not want my child somewhere like that and I definitely couldn't wait until March. Is there any other option/nursery/childminder that could bridge the gap?

BertieBotts · 23/10/2015 11:38

Why do you need to see if it improves?Five months is a long time in a baby's life. I would take her out if you can. You don't owe them a chance. You've made them aware of the problems so they can change it for other parents.

ohmyeyebettymartin · 23/10/2015 11:51

I definitely agree with the majority that you should go with your gut feeling and take her out.

My two have been in nursery (2 different ones) from 8 months & 12 months respectively. In both cases my experience has been that the employees take care of the babies/children and take an interest in them in the same way that you would with your own child, if you had a whole lot of other babies to care for at the same time that is! In other words their primary needs are ALWAYS prioritised, nobody sits around cold and wet for longer than the time it takes to sort out the other cold and wet children first. Always a funny story about something the baby/child said/did that day, comments if they ate an awful lot or not much, ditto sleep, who they played with, what they enjoyed, etc etc. You obviously can't give one on one attention to a roomful of babies all day, but even now I smell perfume on my 3yo when I pick her up and I know she has been enjoying cuddles from the staff (or as my DP and I joke, they lock her in a room all day then spray perfume on her at pickup time, you never know Grin).

In my opinion this is the standard of care you should expect. Yes, occasionally things will go a bit wrong (they do at home too, at least at my house), and we all have good days and bad, but keeping babies clean and dry is the bare minimum of child care.

Pico2 · 23/10/2015 12:04

I wouldn't wait to give them a chance. The workplace culture is bad and that is very hard to change for the better. It would take serious effort and months or years. You can't wait for it. It might never change.

BoffinMum · 23/10/2015 12:08

Honestly, it does not sound like they have much capacity to improve at the moment. I would spend this afternoon ringing around childminders and nurseries and anyone else I can think of and try to get temporary care from Monday. This does not sound a good place for you DD to go back to. Can you take some short notice leave from work while you sort things out?

CarlaJones · 23/10/2015 12:11

Different staff members in the room most days, noone gets up to take my baby, even someone does come up,they don't introduce themselves.
I arrive to find her outside in the garden at half five with a streaming cold without her waterproof suit thingy she's got, bottom and legs wet.
Staff pranking each other, laughing about how toys were put in their cars with vodka bottles. This is on site, in front of parents during work hours.

They just sound unsuited to caring for children properly and like they are in the wrong job. They may be able to put on a show of changing, but personally I wouldn't trust them to suddenly be fab at caring for my child and forming a bond. They are not going to suddenly become caring people.

BoffinMum · 23/10/2015 12:20

I often got there and despite the weather she's been changed but not had a vest put on, despite spares

Not normal, rushed nappy changes, usually they put too many clothes on rather than not enough, to be on the safe side.

She's come home with quite bad nappy rash, next day they tell me to bring more cream but it turns out they've misplaced it and then not using any despite the soreness

Not using the cream provided on a sore bottom represents child neglect.

Key worker often not in the room as covers other parts of the nursery, looks bewildered when I looked concerned

They don't have to be there every moment, but you need to know how long she is in there, and how long the key worker spends doing other things.

Different staff members in the room most days, noone gets up to take my baby, even someone does come up,they don't introduce themselves

Warning bell - poor leadership and poor professionalism.

I arrive to find her outside in the garden at half five with a streaming cold without her waterproof suit thingy she's got, bottom and legs wet

Same problem as vest and you could reasonably expect extra care if she has a bad cold at the time.

Staff pranking each other, laughing about how toys were put in their cars with vodka bottles. This is on site, in front of parents during work hours

May mean nothing but it is unprofessional and parents should never hear this kind of thing. It also suggests a rather adult-orientated environment, frankly, with children present rather than central.

They have put DD to sleep in the bouncer for naps despite me repeatedly asking them not to

You would need to know the reason why - is it because she sleeps better, or is it because they are not bothering to listen to you?

Dirty milk bottles left about over night

Sloppy practice, but does not necessarily indicate neglect, just not much pride in the job.

Filthy and I mean filthy bumbo seats uncleaned

Potential health and safety hazard.

They haven't listened to me about how she eats, i.e. picking up little bits off the tray at a time and keep telling me how she's a fussy eater and won't eat anything. She's not fussy at home remotely

You need to know what they are feeding her, and how?

Other things to check:

Are children sitting up to eat? Many of the choking incidences come about when untrained/lazy carers given them bits of apple etc whilst they are sitting on the floor. This is a real hazard.

In the site secure? Angry and curious children are very good at escaping.

Are they wiping changing mats with Dettox between children?

Are the sterilising potties?

Are they sticking to the specified timetable for your child's age group, or does your child spend a long time each day roaming aimlessly or waiting in queues? (This is different from unstructured play and the necessary lining up groups of children have to do in the normal course of events).

Do the carers all recognise your child, know her name, and know her little quirkinesses?

SnozzberryPie · 23/10/2015 12:23

It sounds dreadful to me. Dd's nursery can be quite disorganised and the stuff about losing nappy cream and spare clothes sounds familiar however the difference is that dd will come home wearing someone else's clothes because the staff aren't neglectful enough to just let her sit there in the cold.

Dbsparkles · 23/10/2015 12:23

My twins have been with a childminder since 7 months, I'd be horrified with some of those things. I'm glad you spoke to them. Would you consider a childminder if the other nursery don't have space?
You put so much trust in these places to care for our children, it's so wrong when they act like this.

nameinlights · 23/10/2015 12:28

As soon as the other nursery has confirmed they can take her for the days you need, I would move her. I know you've spoken to the manager but when you move her I would put everything in writing, even if some of the issues have been addressed. You need to do that for the sake of the litter children.

My dd is 13 months and has been at nursery since 9 months. Nothing you have described above would happen at her nursery. Except napping in the bouncer which is where she napped at first.

Saladeeta · 23/10/2015 13:14

I've been offered 3 days a week from the other nursery but not on my working days. I'm sure I could shift things to accomodate. Consensus is to take? Brilliant posts BTW, thank you Flowers

OP posts:
Saladeeta · 23/10/2015 13:16

No child minders I know of locally, I'll keep looking

OP posts:
Goldmandra · 23/10/2015 13:21

Nothing you have described above would happen at her nursery. Except napping in the bouncer which is where she napped at first.

Babies sleeping in bouncers is now recognised to be dangerous and therefore shouldn't be happening in a nursery, particularly not when a parent has expressly requested that this doesn't happen.

MintSource · 23/10/2015 13:25

Yes, if you can take her out now then go for it. If it was Baby Mint, I'd move heaven and earth to get him out now. I don't think you will be able to concentrate on work and feel happy until you know your DD is somewhere much better.

dobbythedoggy · 23/10/2015 13:30

Run! It sounds terriable, I'm all for giving nurseries the chance to change but it sounds like there are too many issues for that to be applied here. I've worked in nurseries like that; where the staff chatting came first and the actual childcare was regarded as a nusance that got in the way. If that is the culture there then you're more likely to become "that parent" who is always complaining anf making a fuss. I've only ever found parent's regarded as that in settings like the one you describe. They may well put on a show of changing; meeting you at the door to take dd, ensuring the last change of the day uses cream, and may well actually put someone to look out for you so they can do a last minute spot check. You'll probably find yourself having to issue perodic reminders as staff slip back into the status quo of the rest of the nursery.

My cv is very telling as some of the places I've worked in I've only stayed a few months, others haven't even made it there as I couldn't even entertain the idea of attempting to work there for more than a few days. Shockingly many were outstanding but staff were primed to put on a show, so actually knew what they should be doing but couldn't be bothered to do it. However the places I have stayed: a pre-school I did 3 years in including my training which I only left due to moving area, and an indpendent nusery where I stayed for 8 years and was very sad to leave to stay at home with dd, both were rated good/satafactory. Experience has made me very picky about where I will work and I'd rather do cleaning, shelf stacking, standing in the rain holding a sign, anything but work in a poorly managed setting.

The nursery I worked in made it a priority to keep staff continuious in the rooms, with highest priority being given to making sure the baby and toddler rooms had the same staff or if illness made this impossable people who had perviously run the room in, cover staff were never allowed in there! We worked longer days and had a day off in the week rather than shifts to ensure numbers were alway right and nothing was lost in handover to early/late shift. I was the keyworker/supervisor in there for two years for the babies, I had very specail relationships with those children and wouldn't have wanted them treated by other staff the way youb describe. Unsettled babies would often join me on my lunchbreak if they weren't familar with the person releaving me. They did get to know all members of staff and were comfortable with them once settled in but to begin with it was seen as vital for their key worker to spend time getting to know them. Any staff who throught it was alright to gosip or have adult conversations no related to something urgent in the setting would have been in deep trouble. The manager and senoir staff would not have stood for it. Junior staff turn over was often higher than other local settings as young girls who didn't want to work hard moved on to less picky places who premoted quickly. Certain staff wouldn't make it through the probationary period. But senoir staff well they were like dinosaurs, we'd all been around for ages (in any other settings locally we'd have been running it), it was privilage to get a keyworker/room supervisor position and meant you were highly unlikely to want to leave. In my time there was only one other senoir that left as her patners job got relocated and she was deverstated to leave.