To ask why Childrens Centres have a 'bad rep'?

[stqueen]

I try to do as many activities with my young DD as possible, some of which have been at the heavily promoted (by MW & HV) local children's centre - which incidentally is a brand new building, great facilities etc.

We attended a 6-week baby yoga course which, prior to my HV informing me about it, I was going to do elsewhere at cost. This course was free & high quality (good teaching, age appropriate etc.) Having a chat with the tutor at the end this weeks session, I asked why more people don't attend (tutor mentioned take up rates for some other sessions is low also). I think there was capacity for 10 per session but only 4-6 attend, it varies week by week. I was told unfortunately many CCs have a stigma attached & (not my words) a 'bad reputation'. This was met with knowing nods from some of the other mums. The conversation then swiftly moved on.

The reason the HV apparently promote these centres & their activities so heavily is because they may be closed if they don't get certain levels of usage.

So, AIBU for asking why the bloody hell these places have a so called stigma attached? I cannot see why this would be the case - they offer some great sessions for all age groups, nice facilities, experienced staff.

Yep, I also got told to stay away from our local Children's Centre because I had a degree and "too many books" in my house (when the Health Visitor did a single home visit). She suggested I used a nicer playgroup with more of "my kind" of people in it out in a village - problem being I didn't have a car at the time and couldn’t.

I went along instead to a non-children's centre toddler session at a church hall, which was full of the demographic the CC was aimed at who all said they felt too judged at the CC and preferred the Church Hall and the non-judgmental vicar's wife. Everyone of different backgrounds got along together fine.

So some of us were turned away in case we looked down on the target audience, but the target audience felt looked down on by the professionals running it...

This was 13 years ago, though.

The Fun Days are for collecting addresses and details - because hosting these days is a way of reaching out to the community and being a viable part of that community. By attending, a vulnerable person might learn of classes to help with their language skills or cooking on a budget, breastfeeding, self defence classes, managing money classes etc. Of course it's advertising, that's what they need to get people in. You don't have to sign up. What a waste of public money to hold these fun days and NOT get names of people who might need support.

Sad to hear that some felt watched. I went to a sure start session once and the tone did feel totally different.

If they only let people "in need" use them then attendees may as well walk around with "in need" stamped on their forehead.
If they let a mix of people use them it's a waste of funding for those who can afford to pay for private classes

i don't know what the answer is but it's a perfect study in universal vs targeted service.

Ah yes.
Cc.
We have one in our village.
They asked me for my name and address at a pre school event.
As soon as I told them my postcode she just shrugged and said "oh, you live there do you?" (Nice area, nice house)
So my pnd, chronic health condition mean fuck all because I live in a nice area?
I asked them some time later if they had anyone on their books who could use a nearly new pram.
They took my detail and promised to get back to me.
I waited 3 months then sold it.

It has been many years since I have been near a children's centre as my youngest is six. I also have a 13 year old so I remember what life was like before children's centres.

Before children's centres there was many more mother and toddler groups that only charged a nominal amount. There were music groups but parents paid more for them. When Surestart was first created the health visiting service was cut. The free playgroups meant that many of the church playgroups when under as they had to charge to cover their costs. No one could make a living running music groups unless they were employed by a children's centre. When Surestart stopped running free groups the cost of activities run by th voluntary/ private sector rocketed.

More seriously evidence showed that Surestart did not help the life chances of children in deprived areas. Less health visitor checks have meant that developmental delays are not picked up. Frankly health visitors are better placed to spot postnatal depression or child protection issues and treat it than a Surestart worker with far less training.

Money is now being spent on offering funding to two year olds whose families live in challenging circumstances. I feel this is an improvement.

I have a range of different children's centres near me since I am in a very poor London borough. I like them and a range of people use them in my borough. They have also just referred my son to speech therapy so can be a way of accessing support.

My friend does work in a children's centre and did tell me cc can and have referred people to social services which can put some people off if they feel like they are being watched. However I really get on with all the organisers of the groups and have never felt like I am being watched all the time and judged.

Ours was full of rich mums doing baby Einstein and yoga, but was of course aimed at poor mums (who didn't go because they were worried they'll be told what's what by social workers). Never had a bad rep though except among the parents it was actually aimed at.

Especially the dad-come-and-play sessions (aimed at the perceived feckless ones who won't play with their children) were of course full of mc daddies with papooses drinking Rooibos tea.

Our family is a middle income family in a deprived area. Our old house has the same postcode as the Surestart centre. My daughter was born at our old house and one of the every first places she went to was Surestart centre for her hearing test. I was told I lived in the wrong area without the worker even asking what my address was! I told the worker my post code and explained that my daughter had never been outside the Surestart centre catchment area in her life as she was born at home.

I didn't go to mine precisely why leccy said.

It was full of mc mums and sometimes their husbands and I didn't fit in being 17 and single.

"
My friend does work in a children's centre and did tell me cc can and have referred people to social services which can put some people off if they feel like they are being watched. However I really get on with all the organisers of the groups and have never felt like I am being watched all the time and judged."

Anyone in the land can make social services referral. Sometimes lives are saved by nosey neighbours.

We have several round here. One was brilliant when I was on maternity leave, but certainly most of the parents who came along would have been able (and happy, we discussed it later on) to make a small contribution per session. Most of the sessions we used to go to have now been shut down, even though they were always full to capacity, because the 'wrong' people were attending (mostly late 30s/early 40s professionals). Everyone was there because they needed support, and I would have been very isolated without it, despite being in a busy city environment.

There is another centre which was obviously actively aimed at the 'vulnerable' demographic, as it gave copious quantities of free fruit out, but this only a couple of families (who didn't seem vulnerable at all) per session in the few times I went, and now it has cut back too.

And another, which offers free crèche up to three days a week to regular attendees, presumably intended to help people get back into work. I was and when I found out they had given a place to the little girl of two City people, who could quite easily have afforded to pay nursery or even nanny fees. It makes a mockery of the whole thing.

I am sure there must be a way of having a discreet way to optionally donate to attend things, without cutting off all support for new mums who don't fit the misadvantaged label.

*disadvantaged, even

Ours were amazing until the council shut them down. I have twins and no help during the day and the CC staff were fab - always took one baby for me so I could play with/feed the other. I got invited to a baby massage course there too as the one you had to pay for wouldn't take twins unless they were accompanied by two adults. The CC said it wasn't a problem, one could sit in a bouncy chair or play with some toys whilst I massaged the other one. We went to a whole range of sessions there: breast feeding group, baby play group, new mums group, twins group, weaning group. They were open to all families and were all staff by lovely, well qualified people. I really miss our CCs.

Solasum, I always wondered about that. Maybe they could make it a paid for voucher system, free to some, super cheap to others and still cheaper than private classes to those who can pay. Voucher looks the same no matter what price, no stigma and still money coming in. It might not help though if those most in need won't go because they feel they don't fit in with the richer, older, more mc clientele.

I wonder if some of these centres are a bit off the mark though, if money to feed the kids is a problem I'm not sure how high baby yoga and singing classes will be on the list of things that must be done today.

i don't use mine any more as a few years ago I was there with my (then) toddler, and talking to another mum, while our toddlers happily played together, in our sight of course. and we both got told off for "not interacting with our children enough"

and at the same place i once got told off for drinking a diet coke. as it didn't fit in with their "healthy eating" policy. wtf I was 28 at the time and it wasn't like I was giving it to the kids

and have heard loads of similar stories

I think they are a good idea in principle but I think some of the staff need to chill out

I'm older and from a middle class background (but poor!) so I suppose as far as many people are concerned I shouldn't be 'allowed' to use my local children's centre. But when I was suffering from severe postnatal depression that place was a godsend. If I wasn't feeling able to leave the house, they came to me. I attended weekly PND support sessions there that were a lifeline. While I was in the session DS was looked after in a crèche. When DS had reflux and wouldn't breastfeed I had loads of help from their breastfeeding support group. I'm now a peer supporter with the same group (although I've had to go back to work full time so can't volunteer much). They run stay and plays in our town and in several surrounding villages for families who can't get to town. You see parents from all sorts of backgrounds at these groups.

I love my local centre and I can honestly say I don't know how I'd have got through the first year of being a parent without it!

I'm really surprised to hear that a lot of cc aren't very good. I just assumed that they would offer a good service all round, but apparently not.

When I had DD1 I used ours regularly. It is in our village so I can walk there no problem. There was a session every week that anyone could attend, health visitor clinic weekly, occasional short courses on another day and sessions for those with additional needs only.

I stopped going when DD was 2 as I went back to work and a short while after became pregnant with DD2. I looked forward to going to the CC with DD2 but things have changed a lot in the intervening year. Now there is 1 session a week that anyone can go to, it isn't even run by the CC, a group of parents run it and all the CC do is provide a venue. The staff open the door to let you in but that is all you see them. The HV clinic is now once a month and is at the same time as the group so again the staff don't do anything. Before the change they used to put toys out and play with the children while you were waiting for your turn. There are still 2 sessions for those with additional needs which I am fully supportive of, I am very fortunate not to need these and certainly don't begrudge those who do.

I'm not exactly sure what the CC staff actually do any more. It is open Mon-Fri 9-5 but only has sessions on Thursdays and Fridays. The Friday group is once a month. I realise that this is down to cuts in funding but I do wonder how long until it closes altogether. There are other CC around that offer more but there is virtually no parking around them and public transport is crap round here. We are one of the most deprived parts of Britain so it isn't down to the 'wrong' type of family using them, anyone who could afford to live anywhere else won't live here.

Where I live is one of the most expensive (small) cities in the country but we still have a number of CC. We still have social housing and hostels so it's not only wealthy people here - doesn't everywhere?

Money doesn't stop you making mistakes in your caring for your children or having IE pND or a child with additional needs. Our CC supports all of that. Don't get me wrong, we're far less likely to be stressed and angry because a local enemy is going to beat us up for giving her evils (one of the situations I heard a CC worker trying to sort out recently!) but that doesn't mean we don't need help caring for our children and ours is fab. Teaches you how to play with your babies, baby massage, signing, first aid- the workers are all qualified in the things they teach and are usually ex child care workers themselves so qualified in child care. The group of ccs in my area share staff so although your centre might only have 2 groups a week they are holding them elsewhere too. I knew no one in the area and they have been invaluable.

Alice are you in Wiltshire by any chance?

Some of them can be a bit bossy. For instance there was a thread on here about a lady who was told she couldn't drink from the bottle of diet coke she had with her as they had a healthy eating policy. Fuck that shit. And our local one is apparently famous for making you get up out of your chair and go and engage with your child, who is playing quite happily with another child on a mat, when that may have been your only opportunity this week to enjoy a quiet cup of coffee. Sod that!

I did attend our local one a few times - there was a hilarious woman there with her 3 year old who I got chatting to a few times. Asked if the Dad was still on the scene which had come up in conversation (I think she asked about my husband or something) and she said "good god no! There were several that night and I didn't know any of their names!"

She was ace. Bet she knows how to party

I had serious pnd, so was offered me some free childcare in a cc. However, it was miles away from where I lived at the time (a mc area), so it was of little use (I had no car). I did take it up as I was desperate and in need of a break. They required me to attend some parent child play sessions in return. The sessions were very patronising and basic, "this is how we play peekaboo", "children can play with balls in so many different ways" type, sessions. IMO Iwas treated like an absolutely clueless idiot for having pnd, despite having a degree in psychology (including a large developmental psych module), and further studies involving attachment, infant neuroscience, etc. I was also told to do controlled crying on my night waking 11 month old baby, and was called uncooperative and threatened with removal of help for refusing. I made my own conclusions and left the place for good. What a dump!

The stay and play sessions are designed so that you interact with your child eg. no chairs, no hot drinks - they are a different kind of thing to church hall playgroups where you sit and have a cuppa and chat while the kids rampage. Not saying one is better or worse, they are just different things.

There does seem to be a bit of a middle class "I want this funding/resources aimed at me, but I don't want to be treated like I need help" theme on this thread. And also that more vulnerable users would be more likely to attend if there are lots of middle class professionals there to make it "naice". Sorry, but that's not how it is ime - I have been to a CC where the middle class clique chatted with each other and ignored little Sebastian and Verity running amok, and it was off putting and exclusionary for everyone else.

The CCs where I live now are brilliant and very well used, and the parents do come from the immediate (economically deprived) area. There are groups for specific target groups and universal groups. Personally I have attended breastfeeding groups, baby massage, new mum groups, health clinic, gym tots, music and movement and stay and play, all free and staffed by helpful, knowledgable, supportive staff. My kids have also attended the outstanding nursery provision. I know staff also make home visits to people who need it and are a total life line for some.

Their funding is completely down to reaching people most at need though, and yes they do take postcodes when people attend to check they are doing their job. They would fail an Ofsted inspection if they couldn't show they were providing a service for people in their reach area.

I used to use one regularly when I lived in London. It was on the edge of a very economically deprived estate with a much wealthier area next to it. It was very well-used by a mix of middle-class parents, very young parents from poor backgrounds, and had a high number of asylum seekers who spoke little English. Everyone got on great and all the groups were well-attended. There were general groups and specific sessions targeted at young dads, under-25s, single parents, PND etc.

They were then told that they had to discourage the middle-class contingent. We moved away around this time, but I know people who stayed in the area and apparently the attendance halved, loads of sessions were cancelled and it went from a thriving, happy meeting-place for parents to an underused resource under threat of closure.

It was a real shame.