To ask any black posters how they feel about Gollywogs

[Bambambini]

There's a very popular FB post doing the rounds asking people to vote if they the think Gollywogs should make a come back.

I commented negatively on it as I was under the impression that black people often find them offensive and I was suspicious as to the intent of this meme doing the rounds and if it was just trying to stir up trouble. Then I looked online to back up this view and on another board black folk (or poeple who claimed to be black)seemed to be saying they couldn't care less.

So if you are black how do you feel about them, I don't want to be misrepresenting you. And to all those folk on FB voting yes and commenting how all this PC stuff is out of hand - maybe they need to see what black people actually think.

Dietcherrycola, that is the first I've heard it explained clearly why the jam pots used that symbol. I suppose if you put it in perspective, many of the companies that used slave labour during ww2 would be using symbols that would be unaccceptable too if they attempted to caricature their materials labour on their product.

Or many items manufactured around the world today (if truth be known). World cup logo for Dubai would be dodgy too if workers conditions linked to it!

I wrote Dubai. It is Qatar, of course.

I have an old golly from my childhood but sadly he now lives in the loft in case he gives offence. An elderly neighbour knitted one for me to give dgc1 but we just thanked her and he joined mine in the loft. I also have a black baby doll which I was given in 1949 when I was 5. That is also in the loft as her arm came off.
The thing is that when I was a child these were just much loved toys and no one thought anything of them beyond that. Most small children had a teddy bear, a rag doll and a golly.
I only know from mumsnet that black people might be offended by them but I accept that. I couldn't bin them though no doubt that is where they will end up.
I lived in Sierra Leone from 1969 to 73 and there were golly like dolls around on the market there.

A couple of posters say no-one ever talks about this in real life. I agree it's not headline news but conversations around it do happen. Last year some friends went travelling from the UK up the QLD coast. They were pretty shocked to come across a shop in a big mall selling them, they took a picture and tweeted about it. Turned into front page news of the Maroochydore Gazette (or whatever local rag it was). Lots of locals got their knickers in a real twist over it, and via the social media coverage I had some depressing conversations with my MIL who despite having a good heart, had a lot of internalised racist & sexist views.

So you know, it still is a part of the cultural back group noise, though slowly and rightfully fading away.

I had one when I was a kid in the late 60s. It scared the shit out of me as I thought it was a black person dressed as a clown with face paint. Everyone knows clowns are sinister.
I thought they were clowns?
I don't find them particularly racist but the way they have been portrayed is if that makes sense.

I have an old golly from my childhood but sadly he now lives in the loft in case he gives offence

my heart bleeds

Pranma,they are still in Sierra Leone and sold all along the Gold Coast.

Beautifully embroidered waist coats ,one of a kind labels, or small numbered collections.

Not really intended for children and very, very expensive.All hues of humanity line up to buy.

Sorry to cause your bleeding heart . That's life really, at my advanced age I am happy to have some of my childhood toys and to feel sentimental about them. Mind you I am pretty sentimental about peas too. I can't leave one on my plate in case it is lonely. I spend many a second debating whether a pea and its pal would rather be eaten and pass through my digestive tract or put in the green rubbish bin to take their chances. I have been a supporter of the "Give Peas a Chance" movement for a while now.
I hate racism in any of its evil manifestations but I'll not be binning Golly in my lifetime.

gotthemoon Are they what we call golliwogs or are they black rag dolls. There really is a difference.

Rag doll

Gollywogs are a representation of minstrels (which were mostly white men made to look black) that were popular in America in the 1800s and then spread over here. They are dressed in stripy trousers with bright waistcoats and red jackets with clown faces.

I had one and it had no associations for me. I loved my golly. I removed the horrible clothes and made her nice ones (she was definitely a she) and eventually she finished up in a gone-with-the-wind style frock made from Liberty Tana lawn, with a matching mob cap to cover her lack of hair (why do they only have hair round the top of their heads?). She was finally laid to rest, after much mending, when the foam rubber stuffing became hard and brittle and started to leak everywhere.

Much as I loved her, I do not like them very much at all, most of them look horrible and they have nothing to do with the present day and belong in the past. I remember how shocked I was when someone called the only black boy in my school a gollywog. There is no way I would be supporting anyone trying to bring them back because I do not trust their reasons.

The ones I meant were very like gollies with fuzzy hair and big mouth but dressed in rich fabrics often with sequins on waistcoats or little glass jewels for buttons.
However I left SL in 1972 and there has been vicious civil war since then :(

I should have said I agree with Whatevva and feel they have no place in today's society and I would oppose any move to bring them back.

Would anyone under 50 or even 60 know what it is?

I'm early 30's and know what they are. None of my friends or I had them, or that I remember even knew what they were meant to represent, just weird looking toys that older generations occassionally had still from childhood that were also in Enid Blyton. I think I remember them on jam, but I don't know if I really do or if it's just because I've always heard about the link.

I do however remember a wtf, disbelieving moment when at some point in childhood I discovered they were a caricature of black people, because up till then I hadn't remotely associated the two.

'The Black and white minstrel show' was on BBC1 on saturday night primetime until 1978.You can still buy the DVDs on Amazon.
As I said upthread I know an old boy who was on the show and claims the fact that they were racist never occurred to him.

Brioche - Well it was different times and we all used to watch Love My Neighbour and It Aint Half Hot Mum and a few other dodgy shows. Times have changed a lot, thank god.

I remember watching Roots when it came out. It was HUGE and really had a big impact, don't think we had ever seen anything like it, where the main characters were black and it was shown from their perspective for a change.

I loved them as a child. I was really shocked when I was told they were meant to be black people. They were just gollys! But even as a child could see that if they were meant to be black people that would be offensive. A lot of people simply never made the connection.

Black skin. Fuzzy hair. Thick lips.

Nope. Can't see how anyone would think that was a caricature of a black person.

What the fuck did people think they were representing????????

This again?

I didn't think they were representing anything. I was a kid. I thought it was a kind of teddy. Teddies don't look like bears.

I knew real black people. The golly was so unlike a person, it never crossed my mind it had anything to do with them! It slowly sank in as I got a bit older, so I went off them.

Having missed the era of the b&w minstrels, so not even the clothing meant anything, why on earth would I as a small child have the independent realisation the weird looking toy some old people had was meant to be a caricature of a black person? As an adult with knowledge of the history, of course it's obvious they are a caricature. But as a child, until I found out what they were, no, it didn't cross my mind they were meant to be anything or anyone.

You were a kid- but the person who gave it to you presumably wasn't.....

No one would expect a child to understand the political sensitivities of a toy they've been given.