To have zero sympathy for this woman

[wasonthelist]

The tearful woman on BBC Question Time claims to have been a Tory voter. She's reaping what she sows.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hame-you-hardworking-mums-tearful-6643284

This woman, from the OP, may have done herself more harm than good. The news said she may be looked at by hmrc as business have to be run with a view to make profit.

She also said that she feels no government in her lifetime have helped her. She is 31 so spent plenty of time under a labour government, it doesn't sound like she thought they did a good job either.

Labour would be mad to make her the poster child. She doesn't feel labour did anything to help her and she could potenially be in hot water if it came out she is working cash in hand pocket in the difference or purposely running her business at not profit to claim benefits.

I also think that her ex needs looking at to find out if he is supporting the children. If not, why not and they need to come down hard on him too.

Nrps that don't support their children need tackling asap

There are few things more depressing than people who have gone through hard times, are now well off and yet have absolutely no empathy for people who are in the position they once were.

Do people like this not understand the concept of luck? You had hard times, suffered etc but ultimately YOU WERE LUCKY! You weren't struck down with a disability that made working impossible. You may have worked hard to get good qualifications, but first you had to be lucky enough to access a course and to be able to finance it, perhaps with free tuition fees and student grants that no longer exist. Not to mention lucky enough to have the degree of intelligence needed to succeed in your studies.

You may have a high powered, well paid job now, but that is because you were lucky enough to see the advert at the right time and get to the interview. Lucky enough to have the characteristics valued by your company that put you in line for promotion. How many equally or more deserving people didn't see the advert because they had flu that week, or didn't apply because they would never be able to afford the commuting costs? Were passed over for promotion because they had a chronic illness or caring responsibilities which meant they were perceived as less able?

The fact is, however hard you have worked, however many hours you've worked and however many sacrifices you have made, there is a massive element of pure chance in your success, for which you can claim no credit whatsoever. Other people don't get these chances and so are not wealthy and secure, regardless of how clever, hardworking or ambitious they are.

So a little bit of humility and gratitude is in order, please.

PS It's also fine not to support other people's children if you have none, assuming you will be getting euthanised the day after retirement, so as not to benefit from any of the services those children's taxes will be providing for you...

Very well said Silverdragonfly

The Right have the empathy. You really help people like this woman by ensuring the nation balances its books and can provide the temporary one year support for the unemployed until they get back to full time work which unemployment benefits should be.

You don't help people by enabling them to stay in part time low paid work. That is not help. it's a left wing sticking plaster which keeps people under the thumb of the state, controlled and made to do as the state wants because of their dependence.

If her ex husband had the children every other week or paid half their costs then neither of them might need benefits. I agree with the poster above about making both parents responsible to keep children they have. Most mumsnetters cannot afford 4 children. This lady and her ex seem to think they can.

Grazia 'Only the Tories really care for the poor' - Do you honestly genuinely believe this? DH is a trained engineer but through no fault of his own developed severe mental health and physical illnesses. Thankfully he has a car through the motability scheme to enable him to get to his many appointments, and as we live very rurally, a hospital appointment is a 140 mile round trip. Because the Tories have changed the criteria for claiming DLA, he may now lose this. He is no better, he hasn't undergone some amazing treatment, but the criteria has been reduced by more than half so how will he get to appointments? Rural bus services are a joke, even if his mental health meant he was able to face them. No trains. His illnesses will worsen, he will require more care but the mental health services have been decimated so the Support Bed Unit has closed down and the nearest crisis team is 40 miles away - they will not visit out of hours (crisis, what crisis). So how are the Tories taking care of us? If he loses his ESA, the nearest Job centre is also 40 miles away, how can he get there to sign on and attend interviews, even if he was physically and mentally able? So he will be sanctioned. We are on the council list to move to a more accessible place for treatment but nothing doing. We privately rent that we have to top up council tax benefit by £25 a week. There is nothing spare. I have £5 in my bank account and £7.53 in my purse to last until Tuesday when Child Benefit and CTC are paid. Christmas is a non event this year.
And you tell me the Tories care for people like me? I despair.

Silver if that was aimed at me it was pure guess work. I'm neither wealthy or degree educated. I couldn't afford the loans as needed to put a roof over my head and eat. Now I can cover my bills and feed my children.

Lucky yes to not have a disability but there's a safety net for that and there are no plans to remove it.

The rest isnt luck, it was sheer hard work and resilience. Tax credits stop people doing that, most will take the easy option and take the benefits and that's why they need to go. Take away the easy option and people will have to make choices based on what they can afford. They will have no choice but to work and take responsibility for themselves.

Nobody wants an end to the welfare state but welfare should be as a last resort where there is not other option. What it is now is a shambles, paying people to not work by choice or to do very little is not what welfare should have ever covered.

It's not harsh or uncaring to expect people to live the life and make choices they can afford. It's called being responsible.

It always makes me when people say that once the scroungers are sorted out there'll be more in the pot for the disabled. The disabled were the very first group to be targeted.

I wonder what kind of money she was earning. It's far too easy for self employed people to take cash in hand for jobs and then still claim benefit. But I suppose it would be a shame to penalise the dishonest ones from the others who don't fiddle the books. Why she thinks society should support her and her children is a bit of a mystery. Why do people think that others are selfish because they don't want to endlessly contribute to making up the wages of people that are no worse off than they are themselves.

I honestly don't see how I was lucky.

I couldn't afford to go to uni (dbro went a few years before and got a grant, I had to pay) I worked full time in whatever jobs I could get. Had 2 kids, still worked full time. Saved and opened my own business. It took 15 years.

I don't consider myself lucky not to have become disabled. I think people who do become disabled are incredibly unlucky. Yes things could have gone more wrong along the way.

But I think a big problem here at the moment is that there is an assumption than successful people are just lucky.

Posted too soon.

When people start saying its down to luck, it's another way of saying 'not deserved'.

I think I speak for the rest of the cabinet ministers when I say that there was no luck in me being a multi-millionaire who had the best education money can buy. My success is entirely due to my own efforts and I owe no debt to society. My inheritance and background had no influence whatsoever. Even Dave pulled himself up from nothing.

"Lucky yes to not have a disability but there's a safety net for that and there are no plans to remove it."

yet

My observations...
She's old enough to know how right wing policies work historically. If she didn't know she could've Googled it.
She voted for what she thought would be best for her, even though it would be devasting for people less fortunate. She has an "I'm alright Jack" attitude so can fuck right off IMO. It was that attitude that spawned YUPPIES, the me, me, me culture and "no such thing as society" in the 1980s!

I feel more sorry for those who didn't vote tory yet are effected negatively by their polocies. Her? Not so much. If she's silly enough to vote purely on what MPs say when they're looking for votes, instead of digging a little beneath the surface for more information, then she only has herself to blame for making a mistake.

"I think I speak for the rest of the cabinet ministers when I say that there was no luck in me being a multi-millionaire who had the best education money can buy. My success is entirely due to my own efforts and I owe no debt to society. My inheritance and background had no influence whatsoever. Even Dave pulled himself up from nothing."

HaHa, PigletJohn! Sums is up doesn't it.

what bizarrely she doesn't think the left did anything for her either. Can't really see who she would vote for next time.

On top of all you said, it turns out she will probably be ok anyway. So voting Tory worked out for her.

Axe, the bottom line is you are right and those who think those who get on and work hard and do well are lucky will never themselves do okay because they on the whole didn't do the same. So they mightb e weeping into their pillows now but it was the Tories people want. that is because most people int he UK know that most of us who do well are the harder workers.

Yes there are some people who have an awful disability like the lady's husband above and yes the welfare state will continue to ensure the very badly off are fed etc but most people know that hard work pays and that families are better off taking personal responsibility for themselves and those whom they love rather than relying always on the state to do it.

Let us see who wins the election in 5 years time.

Yes, I do believe only the Tories are likely to do the best for the poor. I am sure there are some misguided socialists who are well meaning but they aren't right that their policies ultimately benefit the less well off. They don't., They just ruin the country and ensure there is no welfare state for anyone. They couldn't run a piss up in brewery particularly now Corbyn is leader.

Sien, I don't know your case and is sounds horrible. Could you not work longer hours to pay fo the car for the husband and move to a city nearer hospitals. One reason I haven 't moved from this hellhole of outer London (some people's view of it) to a place where I can look at cows is so that there is close medical care on hand if I need it.

Grazia, there are so many holes in your post, it hurts my head just to read it.

Grazia, I'm unable to work outside the home at all, I'm a full time carer (and I mean full time - no weekends or holidays). I get £62 a week for that but wait.......£30 of that amount is taken back off me because DH receives ESA. We have tried moving but the council list is ridiculous and an awful lot of private landlords wont accept LHA. So we make the best of what we have. But this belief that we will be looked after is a nonsense. Last time his ESA was up for renewal it took 3 tribunals for them to accept he couldn't work at the moment. Not support group, but WRAG. 2 tribunals which were held in a court room - a very very traumatic experience, one which nearly drove DH to suicide. So please dont give me the bullshit that once you're disabled, youre looked after. That couldn't be further from the truth. My job of caring got ten times worse the day PigNosher Cameron got back into government. You clearly have absolutely no idea at all what life is like here on the bottom.

There are few things more depressing than people who have gone through hard times, are now well off and yet have absolutely no empathy for people who are in the position they once were.

I contrast my MIL and my late Father who both knew some times of plenty and some of severe poverty when growing up before the war. My MIL's attitude is 'we had nothing - why should they get anything?' Dad's attitude was: 'I had a hard time, I am damned if I willingly let anyone else suffer like we did.' Not that my Dad was a saint mind you, and MIL can be generous to her family. It just makes me wonder where these attitudes come from. MIL - Tory voter, Dad - Labour until Tony Blair came along. I don't know if that's significant!

But the Tories care more for the poor apparently. Don't make me laugh.

"The Tories are trying to restructure which will mean taking funds away from those that gave got used to it and have built their lifestyles upon it."

Actually, we are a high income family . Since austerity started, we are down about £8,000/year net of taxes due to income tax rises and lack of child benefit. Because so much of our family income is eaten up in taxes, mortgage payments and other fixed costs which we cannot easily control, this £8/yr marginal amount has been really noticeable.

Don't get me wrong, we do not deserve sympathy. Our cutting back consists of cutting back on discretionary spending (holidays, nice clothes, keeping the car longer etc.) Times are tough and the fripperies have to go. Our children are not going hungry or cold.

But, it is not true that we are "getting richer" or that the money the working poor are losing is coming to us.

Perhaps we should all wise up and look a little more closely at the likes of international companies that are making hundreds of millions off the British consumer but paying no taxes as all. (Starbucks, Amazon, etc.)

Grazia has no idea what its like. She thinks she's had hard times to work to get where she is, she has no idea what its like to know your at the bottom and will likely always will be.
She wont listen to what the scumbags are doing to the sick abd disabled because it doesn't fit with her narrative that they actually give a shit.
No matter that they've just cut ESA for new claimants in the wrag group by 30 pound a fucking week.
You talk utter fucking shit Grazia you are really intelligent yet with no fucking mind at all. Astonishing.
How anyone can have the brass balls to say the tories care.

I used to work full time as a nurse, I then had a disabled child. My husband works full time for above minimum wage, 12 hour rotating days/nights over a seven day week. We couldn't get suitable childcare to cover both our shift patterns and ensure our disabled child was appropriately looked after. We have three children, we planned three children, we didn't plan for autism.

I had no choice to give up work, we claim tax credits and DLA. I receive the grand total of £62 a week careers allowance, quite a drop from my previous band 6 full time wage. We wouldn't survive without tax credits. The increase in minimum wage and childcare won't affect us, the cuts in April will see us lose £2467 a year. Within our tax credits we get a severe disability premium only given to children who receive the high rate care component of DLA. When we are transferred to UC we lose again as the severe child disability premium will be halved. Our tax credits pay the food bill. The heating bill, petrol for DH to commute 30 miles to work each day. We're fucked.

People will read this and post 'oh, but we don't mean you'. Yes, yes you do. we are shitting ourselves, the kicker? If mopey DH does any more overtime or gets a pay rise, because of the increase in taper we will lose even more!

I was going to try and reply to Grazia but my atrocious cuntometer is going haywire, it only ever hits 'ubercunt' when a certain prolific name changer posts on any benefit/Tory/cuts thread. I won't waste my time, it's like debating with blancmange.

My*

Outer London hellhole! Grazia your posts have led Mumsnet practically to your front door. Which bit is hellish? The private road, woodland or golf club? You make it sounds like you're in a tower block in Dagenham