To have zero sympathy for this woman

[wasonthelist]

The tearful woman on BBC Question Time claims to have been a Tory voter. She's reaping what she sows.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hame-you-hardworking-mums-tearful-6643284

Floisme - if you remember just after the last election, some Tory voters on here were really crowing - How wonderful it was that a Tory Government had been elected; now these scroungers were going to be hit. - There wasn't an ounce of compassion or a 'there but for the grace of God go I' sentiment amongst them. I felt absolutely sick about the situation.

So for me, it's set against that context - it's difficult to feel as much sympathy as I might. If her business was profitable and she had been hit by say a hike in VAT which the Tories had promised to keep stable/reduce and this tipped her business over the edge, then she would have a point. Instead they made it clear that they would hit 'welfare', and they are delivering what she voted for.

The end result is that we are all paying the price - (well not these CEOs on mega bucks, or companies which avoid paying their taxes, but you and me).

I am not really holding out too much hope for Corbyn - I just hope that his election reflects a groundswell of people with more compassion.

I've noticed a recent change in attitudes to part time working.

Me too. And some of those attitudes pretty much suck.

'hardworking people' vote for party of the rich in the mistaken belief that through hard work they can become rich

Sadly but inevitably there's not much room at the top and those who have a place already aren't keen t?o give any ground

As we all know only fools and horses work, to be wealthy you need to own things so that others have to do the donkey work for you ?

Peregrina I remember it very well. I also think we're going to have to let it go. We need to be bigger than that.

MrsIts, people are free to make those choices but should never be given benefits in order to do so.

Welfare was set up to be a safety net if people fell on bad times, it shouldn't be there for people who don't want to work or just do a little. Rewarding the lazy with money was always going to backfire as a policy.

So people who only work part time are lazy are they?

Ok

Floisme If you mean by let it go, just forget about it - no, I can't agree. Somehow we have to find a way to channel the anger. A previous generation worked damned hard to build the welfare state having seen the 1930s and gone through the War and I am angry that this has been thrown away by a set of arrogant public schoolboys. I am angry that people fell for their charm. If this woman has now woken up to question things, then well and good. I am not sure that she has.

Mind you, I think tax credits are wrong. If they are going to hit tax credits then at the same time they need to address the issue of the minimum wage, zero hours contracts, CEOs paying themselves disgusting salaries, unrestricted rents etc.. If they put decent work in place, on realistic salaries with some job security then it would be a different matter. But job security has now bitten the dust - that's just seen as a sinecure, not as a way of being able to make sensible plans for your future.

I don't think people who work part time are necessarily lazy, I think it is often a good balance for one parent of pre-school kids to work part time if they wish to . However I have 2 colleagues who both claim a substantial amount of tax credits each month. One is a lone parent who works 16 hours a week, she has one 14 yr old dd. The other has a partner in a low paid job and has one 15 yr old dd. The second works one day a week. Both have good family support and neither of their kids have disabilities. Both have the opportunity to take overtime but choose not to as they get topped up by tax credits. I can't help feeling this is unfair and a waste of public money. I have no problem parents of pre-schoolers being helped out when childcare costs are high but when the kids hit the teenage years surely it's not unrealistc to expect they could increase their working hours? I know some folk just can't find extra work and that is different.

Peregrina I don't think being angry is good enough. We have here a tory voter who may be ready to change her opinions. Are we going to talk to her or not?

www.marieclaire.co.uk/blogs/545465/mc-meets-caroline-stanbury-founder-of-gift-library.html

If you have a spare half hour, watch her in action on ladies of London, she likes her hard workers.

We have here a tory voter who may be ready to change her opinions. Are we going to talk to her or not?

Well, OK, what do we say to her?

Well what we don't say (IMO) is 'serves you right for voting tory'. Not unelss we don't actually want to win over any voters!

If it was me, I would start by listening to her.

The reason the Tories are rightfully in power is because those of we women who work full time got fed up of subsidising through high taxes women with large families of 4 ilke this woman has to work part time

"She is a self employed beautician, running a nail bar from her front room.
"

If she got a full time normal job she wouldn't be fleecing full time single working mothers like I am.

If it was me, I would start by listening to her. It's a pity that Dimbleby didn't pick up on it. What did she think the Tories would provide for her? Was she happy with 'benefit scroungers' having their benefits cut? Did she see tax credit as a benefit? Obviously not.

YANBU. The tories are there for rich people. If she will miss a few hundred quid a week then she isn't really in the tory demographic!

Peregrina How would we like this to end? Would we like her to change the way she votes or would we rather just give her the rough edge of our collective tongue because it'll make us feel better?

The way I see it, this woman is a gift.

I've read online that she might not be affected by the cuts after all. Something to do with her business not making a profit.

But plenty of folk still will be. I wonder if she still continue to vote for the Tories knowing this and how it will affect them whilst knowing it could quite easily have been her affected as well

Floisme
Yes, this woman is a gift - and I desperately hope that Corbyn and the Labour Party capitalise on it instead of 'letting it go'.
The time has come for the Labour party to get its hands dirty. The tories do not play fair. They lie and mislead with dodgy interpretations of statistics. If you listen to pork boy, he did not say he wouldn't cut tax credits. He said he didn't 'want' to. All of them, Hunt, Duncan Smith, Shapps etc disgust me.
As Corbyn has been trying to do in PMQs this week - pork boy needs to be held to account more rather than being allowed to give shitey non answers.
The Labour Party needs to assure the BBC that if its licence is revoked or whatever, it will be restored under a labour government with it written in law that can't be held to ransom for political gain.
The BBC in no way challenges the tory lies and spin and the rwm regurgitate the soundbites with no real challenge.
Yes, we should reach out to this woman. But I am still angry at her and her like (especially those who were crowing on this very site - I think mumsnet changed that day, I really do) - the two are not mutually exclusive.

The problem with this woman, for me, is that she owns a business that doesn't make any money. So how long does that go on for? If it's still not making a profit in 4 years, is that ok? Is it right that people live in benefits, long term, while running a 'business'?

Obviously it would be better if employers paid enough that no one needed tax credits, but tax credits should only start being taken away once everyone (including under 25s!) can afford to live without them.

And Cookie I don't have a problem with my taxes supporting single parents raising their under 5s, soon to be under 3s. I do have a problem with tax avoidance, bailing out the banks etc which costs a hell of a lot more to the state than SPs with young children.

Also as a non Tory voter I was actually quite surprised by the attitude of non Tory voters after the election. Loads of threads slagging off Tory voters, refusing to listen to Tory voters point of view.

The threads here in the days after the election showed bad behaviour from boths sides. Not just the Tory voters, in fact the Tory voters were the better behaved ones. It was not a good week for mn.

Maybe because the loudest anti Tory posters were scared that their families were going to be made to suffer. It's hard to be polite in those circumstances.

Cookie I wouldn't say working single parents are lazy.

"The problem with this woman, for me, is that she owns a business that doesn't make any money. So how long does that go on for? If it's still not making a profit in 4 years, is that ok? Is it right that people live in benefits, long term, while running a 'business'?"

Exactly. First of all most couples cannot afford 4 children so don't have them rather than expecting the rest of us to pay for them. Secondly it sounds as if she is not affected by the tax credit reductions anyway as she runs a business so in that case she may be a liar but obviously that fact needs to be checked. Thirdly, why should we support people messing around with nail bars from home whichn make no money whilst full time hard working single mothers support this lady though their taxes?

As we all know only fools and horses work, to be wealthy you need to own things so that others have to do the donkey work for you

Whilst I agree with you that the Tories have rather misled the 'hardworking plebs' about the rewards their hard work with reap, I have to say that your assertion that all wealthy people have got to that position through pure luck and without lifting a finger is, quite frankly, total bollocks.

Not all of 'the rich' sit around all day quaffing champers and wanking off over the thought of poor people suffering that's just Gideon