Commitment

[Flashbangandgone]

I don't get how some people can be committed enough to a relationship to settle down and have kids, yet at the same time not be committed enough (or bothered enough) to marry. AIBU?

Dear friend and his GF together 10 plus years, lived together, in a property solely owned by her, no kids. When she died suddenly abroad, it was a real nightmare for him. Could not have the body released to him, not allowed to make arrangements for the funeral etc etc. her parents were elderly and couldn't cope. Had they been married it would have been much easier for all concerned. It's not just about convention, religion and money.

whois "
i think people who have children when they are in a bad relationship/marriage are fools. Why bring a child into he horrible mess you live in?"

I was in a bad relationship. He raped me and I got pregnant. I dump him and kept my baby. Does that make me a fool?

I think all the common sense legal arguments in the world (such as protecting the less well off partner, rights over assets in the event of a split, and rights in the event of death) just wont sway folk who simply don't want to 'be' married.

Which ever side of the fence you are on, it must be agreed that 'being married' is a change in your state of being, IYSWIM? Entering into that state if you're really not wholeheartedly on board may, rather than cement it, end up damaging the relationship. Feeling trapped and resentful isn't a good basis for a long term commitment.

Because marriage isn't all that, and if you're the higher earning partner, or potentially higher earning partner, or have a better pension than your partner, there are few to no legal advantages to being married at all.

Had I been married, I'd be up shit creek with his debts now, and he'd have half my pension!

I think it's a bit of #everydaysexism to assume women need to be married to be 'protected' legally. In fact, I think the whole assumption that marriage is some sort of gold standard is everydaysexism, as it's an institution built around women as chattel. Not something I'd every wish to associate with, no matter how much I was committed to my partner.

So nothing to do with 'being bothered', and everything to do with not being owned.

There are too many people who cohabit without being aware of the legal and financial differences of co-habiting and marriage, and leave themselves in a vulnerable position. So in that regard YANBU.

Making an informed decision to remain unmarried and mutually protecting your interests as a couple is different to assuming that "common law" gives you the same rights.

As my financial means have been most directly affected by having children, I planned as best as I could to be married before children. I was aware of the fragilities in our set up prior to that, but we mutually had a plan to marry.

t's an institution built around women as chattel. Not something I'd every wish to associate with, no matter how much I was committed to my partner.

This is not strictly true. Marriage goes back thousands of years. Even in Egypt where women were citizens in their own right, could own land etc and choose to divorce.

Besides which marriage is what you make of it today. Certainly my marriage is not based around being owned or needing a husband.

To everyone saying marriage doesn't provide the higher earner with much, surely that's sexist in itself. Men have been, historically, the higher earners. Expected to split their earnings and pensions upon splitting. But now there are more women that are the higher earners, they are being advised not to marry, in case there is a split and they have to pay more to their exs? It doesn't seem fair. If a man (as the higher earner) said he didn't want to marry his partner and/or mother of his kids incase she got half during a potential divorce, there would be lots of calls of ltb.

However as I said before, marriage isn't the right thing for everyone. Neither is right or wrong. I do agree however that having children commits you to a person much more than marriage does.

So you think having kids is a bigger commitment...but then say they don't want to commit?

That makes no sense.

Unless when you say 'commit' you only actually mean 'marry'?

Plenty of people want to get married, that's fine. I wouldn't, due to the language used in marriage, and I feel it is from a previous time of women as possessions.

I dislike the assumption that people don't get married because the woman is too stupid to realise the benefits. Women aren't stupid, and sometimes it's in their interests not to be married, even with children.

Given the divorce rate, I don't think marriage=commitment at all. I think marriage=a quaint thing some people chose to do, but I find a bit odd. A bit like those people who keep all their children's teeth in a box or something. Nice for them, would make me feel a bit ick.

Because my wish not to get married isn't about a lack of commitment to dp. I am very happy to be committed via joint account, joint mortgage, children, wills etc.

My objection to marriage is about my opposition to an institution which I feel upholds a patriarchal society. I also don't feel the need to publically declare our commitment, when this is essentially a private thing between us.

If I could have a civil partnership I would. If dp really wanted to get married I would, but he feels the same.

It is perfectly possible to be in a relationship where both parties are protected without getting married if you don't want to - just share your money and property, get decent wills, both focus on your careers an equal amount and do an equal amount of childcare and housework. I think we should as a society be trying to make partnerships more equal rather than make everyone get married so that women are protected when they make sacrifices over and above men's to look after their family.

My objection to marriage is about my opposition to an institution which I feel upholds a patriarchal society.

?? Not sure why you feel this. The traditional bits about father's giving away their daughters or promising to 'obey' their husbands are obligatory in any way. I can't see how marriage isn't a very equal and balanced arrangement in this day and age... especially as it is rightly open to same-sex couples now

personally - YANBU. at all. but that is totally my personal view.

Husbandry is something that animals need, not women.

I understand there are arguments as to why marriage isn't necessary.... And I suppose I agree that you can be highly committed and protect your relationship and family in other ways.

It's more the fact some people seem to feel 'committed' enough to have children, but not 'committed' enough to marry.

Really you don't understand why?

I had two babies before we got Married because I was young & naive & thought it didn't matter in any sense & it didn't. I wasn't taught about families, marriage or in what order it should/shouldn't happen.

We got married a few years ago because we wanted to make it official. We are no more or less a family than we where before we married. We are as committed now as we where then.

That's not always the way it happens and with society becoming what it is, marriage will only become less & less important.

Not everyone can be as perfect as you op so try and be more opened minded & stop judging. So yeah, YABU.

Husbandry is something that animals need, not women.

?? Words have varieties of meanings. Although the source may have ultimately been similar, 'husband'ry of animals is very different to what is meant by 'husband' in a modern-day marriage.

It's like refusing to have anything to do with Christmas because you're not religious and therefore don't want to celebrate a day whose name has it's origin in Jesus Christ.

honestly,
in some cases i think some men and women have sleepwalked their way into parenthood with a partner that they did not necessarily see themselves ever marrying, or indeed having a long term relationship with.
this is some of what i have seen.

in some other cases, i have seen men and women who are with their partner but who they do not think enough of to marry.

It's more the fact some people seem to feel 'committed' enough to have children, but not 'committed' enough to marry.

I've heard a few people who have chosen to have children talking about not being comfortable with the commitment of getting married yet.

So having children with someone is less of a commitment then?

It just makes me think that at least one of them thinks they are still free to walk away at some point. You can walk away from a marriage but it's much harder to divorce your children.

*I've heard a few people who have chosen to have children talking about not being comfortable with the commitment of getting married yet.

So having children with someone is less of a commitment then?*

Exactly.... Having children is the biggest commitment. It's a bit like commiting to a marathon but not committing to running the 5k you need to do to support you with the marathon.

OP I agree with what you are saying, people who say they don't want the commitment of a marriage and yet have children together is something I don't understand.

Everyone who has posted here saying how committed they are but don't believe in marriage for various reasons, that's fine, I'm not talking about any of you. It is people - men particularly it seems - who won't get married because it is too much 'commitment', but are happy to have children with someone. It seems an odd way around.

I'very had a nap. I must have woken up in the 1970s.

YABU and quite condescending.

You can protect yourself in other ways without getting married.

As for people not being 'committed enough' to get married. A peace of paper does not magically make you committed.

One of my cousins has lived quite happily with her partner for 25 years and haven't married.

Her brother has got married however his exwife cheated on him throughout their marriage. They are currently divorcing.

In these situations who do you think is the most 'committed'.

*typos sorry

Shut - this is exactly what the OP is saying, if you read it properly rather than just leaping onto the nearest bandwagon.

in some other cases, i have seen men and women who are with their partner but who they do not think enough of to marry.

And yet something they think its reasonable to plan to have children with them?

We did this to death only recently:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2456592-To-not-get-the-whole-getting-married-thing?pg=1

My point isn't about people choosing not to marry for ideological/personal reasons, but rather people for whom marriage is something they are theoretically open to, but don't feel they can commit to it with their partner with whom they've already committed to have children.