to ask if I'm financially abusive

[LittleLionMansMummy]

Dh and I both work full time. I earn about 20k more than him. We don't have a joint bank account - I have offered to, so that he can have a debit card for the account, but he says he's fine as things are. He doesn't know my online bank details but he knows my debit card PIN and I give my card to him when he needs to use it. I do keep him updated each month on what's in the 'savings' account which is in my name. We split mortgage and bills, he pays childcare by salary sacrifice, we each take a £50 'allowance' each week that we pool to spend on a night out or other odds and sods. This leaves him with nothing so everything left over from my salary goes into a separate savings account in my name which is there for holidays, clothes, car maintenance, house maintenance or whatever. Dh is quite thrifty so not really a spender anyway and I tend to arrange the kind of stuff the savings pay for. He's always said he'd feel uncomfortable having free access to money that I've essentially saved from my salary (although it's for both of us).

I came into money recently through redundancy (found a new job quickly) which we haven't decided what to do with. We're finally able to spend money on getting house decorated, new carpets and aren't struggling financially. But I still feel like he has to come cap in hand to me when he wants something, which I don't want him to do. Equally i don't want to patronise him by giving him an allowance. Am I being financially controlling towards him? Should I go ahead and just set up a joint account whether he wants it or not? We've been married 6 years, together for 13. I do like to have my own safety net/ security/ financial independence but am beginning to feel uncomfortable about it.

For the record, we're happy and I love him to bits. He seems quite relaxed about everything but it always feels awkward that he has to ask me to pay for stuff.

No, of course youre not. Because you've offered him the option to change it. He says he's fine with things as they are, but if you aren't, its time to talk about it again.
What matters is that both sides are truly happy with whatever arrangement you have, not what that arrangement is.

Set up a joint account but keep yours for savings?

Sounds to me like you're doing what he wants and there for are being considerate not abusive.

Keep as it is, if he's happy then why worry?

I agree with a PP, set up a separate savings accounts but have a joint account too

Why not send him a set amount as a one off and say you've given yourself the same amount. It's there for a rainy day or for something special.. Might be a nice sentiment to show you care.
We inherited some money and did a similar thing. My husband kept the bulk of it (he is the 'you' in this scenario!) and I have an amount which is there in my name.

On a morbid note, I've got access to cash should dh become Poorly etc, so perhaps that might be a way of explaining it to him without sounding patronising?

why not split savings into pots for each of you, and some joint? And shouldn't childcarevvouchers come out of your salary? All being equal it makes more sense for them to come out of the higher paid person's salary doesn't it, or at least shared between you. Why is he paying more towards joint costs (which include childcare) than you are? That doesn't sound right to me, epecially as it's leaving him with nothing to save.

We are in a similar position with me the lower earner, and I pay less towards the joint essentials pot than DH does. I think this is more fair than if we paid the same amount in and all the savings were in DH's name, personally. And DH also does childcare vouchers, as the higher earner. But what do you think OP?

I don't think it sounds like he is unhappy or loses out.

But I hope you're aware that you're breaking the T&C of your bank account by allowing him to use your card - if you were a victim of fraud they may not find in your favour as you would have been deemed to not have been taking care with your card and keeping your PIN confidential.

For that reason alone I would get a joint account or his own with a card

Some good ideas, thanks. I think I will speak to him again about it and see if we can come up with a solution. Purely on practicalities if anything happened to me I'd want to make sure he's got ready access to money.

On childcare, this was a historic arrangement from when we were earning roughly the same - he sacrificed as much as he was entitled to and I topped up the remaining so it usually worked out 50/50. But ds is now at school so childcare costs have come down meaning I no longer have to top up, so it's probably time to reassess this.

Maybe you could continue to split the mortgage but you pay all (or a bigger share) of the bills so that he has something left over at the end of the month?

Dp earns significantly more than me

We have a joint account and one account each

We put all in the joint then take out a set amount thats 'our own money' into our single accounts.
All bills, food kids comes out the joint.

Anything left in the joint gets tipped into savings- although there's rarely any left

We've had a similar situation and in the end decided the best thing was to have;

Joint account which we pay into proportionately

• e.g. if you earn double what he earns, you pay in double. Work out your join costs then pay in proportionately to your salary.

Individual accounts

• this is for our salaries, to do as we wish.

So our join costs are paid by each of us proportionately - the person who earns more picks up more of the bill. With the understanding that we reevaluate should circumstances change, e.g. redundancy, new job, maternity pay.

I don't think you are being abusive but it does seem a bit unfair that you are getting to keep lots of extra money as personal savings every month (even if you do then spend it on shared-use items) whilst he doesn't have this cushion accessible to him.

Financially abusive people set this situation up - they don't fret it's not fair and try to change it! Agree it isn't fair, but your DH needs to reflect that you're a family, too - not two singletons. All money is family money.

Even though you're married, if you were involved in an accident and were left unconscious or unable to manage your own affairs, he would not be able to access any money that's solely in your name. (Unless you have lasting powers of attorney set up for each other.)

Worth having a joint savings account for emergencies.

We do similar to what Party does - worked out total household expenses plus a bit more for contingency, then split the amount we pay into a joint account according to what we earn. Or rather we did until he lost his job and now I've been pretty much covering the whole lot myself the last few months. I've been decorating recently and ran out of paint. When I said I was going to get some more he said make sure you pay for it out of the joint account, I said why when there's only me paying into it, I might as well pay cash (silly sod ).

I think the bill split is probably your problem here. You don't say, but I assume you split them 50/50?

What if you changed them to split them in proportion to what you earn net (after tax). This is what we do, roughly:

We split our mortage 50/50 to reflect the responsibility we take for it. All other bills (including childcare) are split 1/3 (me) to 2/3 (him) to reflect the different amounts we earn net of tax.

Something like childcare which he's paying through salary sacrifice (presume there's a tax benefit) I'd say you should include the net cost in your bills split. Child care is expensive so presumably if he is paying all of that and then you split all other bills (including mortage / rent) 50/50 you may find he is paying more than you in total on day to day costs.

if I were you I'd work all that out and then see where you'd end up.
Presumably you'd be paying a bit more, him a bit less, so that you both have some spare to spend as you see fit.

Then you'd need to work out how to handle 'extras'. I think clothes are a personal choice / expense. So that should come out of each of your 'spare' at the end of the month. Nights out etc likewise (thought you'd probably carry on pooling - could maybe do this on your salary ratio too).

Whereas holidays, car, house repairs are joint expenses, so should come out of joint spending / saving. So maybe include a 'savings contribution' into your bills calculation, which goes into a savings account. Could have in joint names, but if you do the organising and your DH isn't bother, probably fine to be in your name.

DH earns quite a bit more than me (though we both earn well) a 50/50 split on all costs wouldn't leave me with much at the end of the month, and I'd particularly hate having to ask him for money for clothes etc.

We have:

individual personal current accounts (salary goes in here for each of us, then we pay everything into joint account except a nominal "allowance" each for personal spending e.g. iTunes, make-up, coffee out etc.)

joint account (bills on DD paid from here)

cash back credit card with 2 cards (mine with DH as additional cardholder) - groceries, petrol, clothes, entertainment etc, all paid from here. Pay off in full every month on DD from joint account.

Then we each have savings accounts e.g ISAs funded from joint earnings and in roughly the same proportions, so it's fair. Also you get to spread the tax-free element etc.

So it is pretty much all joint money and we both have access to the same.

I would look at changing how you're set up if I was you, only because you definitely shouldn't be giving him your card and PIN to use. The cash back credit card works really well for us - everything jointly paid, but we still have our own accounts for real pure discretionary spending and for surprises like birthday presents for each other!

It sounds as though everything is hunky dory in your house, it's nice to hear!

If your hubby is fine with it then maybe no need to worry, but I wonder if your own worries would be settled by paying more proportionately to your earnings, rather than splitting everything equally?

Because he has nothing left after the bills are paid, you have all of the bargaining power when it comes to spending what's left over - it's not really controlling behaviour as such, it's just the way it's turned out because of the other 'fairness' of paying an equal share of the bills.

If you flip the situation around and imagine you earn the lesser amount, you can probably see why you don't feel quite easy about it!

OP, I'm in a similar situation to your DH; I don't work or receive benefits, so we live off DP's income. We each have a sole account, plus a joint account which DP pays into (we both did when I worked) and from which the bills are paid. I do the money stuff, as DP has no interest, and there are times when I have to ask him to move funds from his account. It always gives me a twinge of awkwardness, but that's my issue, not his, and overall, it works well for us. You are not being financially abusive at all.

As a side issue, I understand why your DH has your debit card PIN, but if there was ever debit card fraud on your account, and the bank found out that anyone else knew the PIN, they would hold you responsible for all the fraudulent activity, and wouldn't reimburse you, whereas normally your liability would be limited to (I think) £50.

If your DH doesn't want a joint account, what about giving him third party authority? It would give him legitimate full access to your account, including debit card on online access, but I appreciate that this might not suit you.

I really think a joint account would make life easier all round.

My ex and I had the same salary while we dated and when we married, so we were basically taking turns in paying mutual expenses, keeeping our own accounts and since we were earning the same, pooling resources never felt like a bad transaction.

However, after a rather major job rellocation, my income plumetted and his went up massively, so yes, I often felt that I needed to come cap in hand everytime I needed to buy anything personal. So the kindest thing was to be given an allowance, and no, compared to having to explain that I needed to get a new bra or a lipstick, having an allowance was actually more dignified.

In time, I got a new job, which at first paid more than his, at that time we decided to pay both our salaries into a joint account from where all expenses were paid and weboth could access freely.

This worked well for a few years, even after his salary increased over mine, but at some point, my ex started overspending amounts from the joint account, so to ensure he didn't accidentally spent the mortgage payment money, we agreed to stop using the joint account for anything other than shared expenses (supermarket trips, bills and holidays) and to transfer an equal small weekly allowance for personal stuff/hobbies into our personal accounts.

We add up our joint spends, and put a proportion into the joint account to cover. this includes holidays etc. So if one of us earns more, we split it percentage wise. So that we both get then same percentage of our wages as personal spends. If you are earning £20k more than him, percentage it out and you put the equivalent percentage more into the joint account than him [after taking the childcare into account]. So if he earns £20k and you earn £40; you put 66% towards the joint spend and he puts 33%.

Or just put it all into a joint account and take out the same monthly for personal spends. As it is joint money. And take your personal savings out of that.

I think the solution is you start contributing towards half of the childcare costs, and then he will have some free money of his own each month without having to go to you.

I'm your DH in this situation - my DP earns a good £25k more than me.

We have our own accounts plus a joint accounts which mortgage, bills, dinners out etc all come from.

DP does pay more in to the account than I do, simply because I physically wouldn't have anything left

In our house we run a joint credit card for all the shared expenses. We have one each and it means neither of us has to 'ask' for money. It's paid off by direct debit every month and we get load of points as well. There is a monthly statement so it would be easily spotted if one of us was going crazy with it.

When I was working I was your dh. When we got married dh insisted on turning his account into a joint account even though I had said no, his reasoning was that if I suddenly got a large bill, think car tyre etc and I didn't have quite enough in my account to cover it then my card for his account was there incase needed (don't have creditcards). I didn't actually use this card till I became a sahm 3 years later.