To hate my neighbour..

[guajiraguantanamera]

Will try not to make this too long. I am probably BU, this all happened a while ago but I am fairly new to MN!
My Dp and moved into a block of flats just over a year ago, when I was pregnant. An older lady (looks to be in her 60's) owns the flat next door. We rent, not sure if this matters but I do detect a slight snobby attitude on her part because of this, I may be wrong.
We didn't speak to her much at the start, apart from the basic pleasantries- hello, how are you? Etc. It became clear that she think she is some kind of "boss" of the flats. She is the only person to have a key to the utility cupboard, she holds loud "meetings" in the hallway, and is generally a bit of a busy body when it comes to people in the flats' business.
Anyway, like I said, we got on fine to begin with.
Then I had my ds in March. I had an EMCS and was feeling very down when we got home from hospital, very sore, exhausted, all the usual complaints!
One night I decided to have a cheeky fag outside our bedroom window (her window
Looks onto ours). I finished my (heavenly) smoke and stubbed it out and tried to ping it into the open bin that sits outside the flats. I missed, and (selfishly, I know), just left it there and came back inside.
I came back in to my screaming newborn, and my dp trying to calm him down. Next thing there was a loud knock at the door. This was about 9.30 pm so we had no
Idea who would be knocking at this time. My dp answered it, baby in his
arms, and there stood NDN. She proceeded to tell him that she had seen me leaving a cigarette doubt outside and started ranting.
My dp calmly asked if she would mind coming back in the morning as we were trying to deal with our son. But no, she continued ranting and raving, so my dp closed the door in her face. He was really angry by this point (he was even more exhausted than me by this point, balancing work and a new baby).
I started getting upset because I KNOW I was in the wrong. I felt
Embarrassed and nervous, so decided to go next door and apologised.
When she opened the door I said sorry so many times and said I knew I was wrong to leave the cigarette there and that I would go out and pick it up (which I did) and I explained that I am not normally so thoughtless but my brain was a bit frazzled and so was my dp's. I was crying by this point and she gave me a hug and told me not to worry we all make mistakes and that we would draw a line under it. I felt so relieved that we had sorted this issue and headed home to tell my dp all was ok.
Then, the next day, leaving our flat to go for a walk, this same
Neighbour launched a verbal
Attack on myself and my partner, while we were pushing our son in his pram. Started shouting that we had left more mess outside (we hadn't) and that she was phoning the factors and going to get us evicted. I told her no sorry that must be somebody elses mess, I picked up that cigarette last night, but she continued to shout at us in front of other neighbours.
I started getting upset again so my dp intervened and she told him "shut up, I don't want to talk to you!" So he told her "fine go fuck yourself you old cow". I was angry at him for saying this, but I was even more angry that she had agreed to forgive and forget the first incident, then brought it all up on our doorstep the next day, in
front of people. I had even offered to do her shopping for her
If she needed me to one day but it seems she has decided that we are not nice people. We get on with everybody else in the building.
Sorry I know this is long, and I know
I was in the wrong to begin with, but I don't think it warranted her behaviour. I also know my dp shouldn't have swore at her but like I said, we were both so sleep deprived at the time.

guajira - you were likely the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. I'm just saying, there are two sides to everything. Our busybody was actually on valium and had severe anxiety. She was at home all day and would ruminate on the comings and goings and so on as she had nothing better to do. She lived alone and didn't have the benefit of bouncing ideas/niggles off others. I'd wager that she's actually more intimidated by you than you are of her right now. We ended up feeling quite sorry for our lady.

In the same way that your usually polite DH was rude because of circumstances, and you did an out of character thing by flicking a cigarette butt because of circumstances, it could be that there's something going on in this woman's life that makes her come across as rude, uptight and miserable.

As you've acknowledged, it's best to just try and avoid her, but it's worth remembering that there could be a reason why she is the way she is, and thinking the worst of her isn't going to help anyone.

agree with Tigger.
Your husband's outburst was rude beyond belief.
So you can all leave Tigger alone for a bit and attack/insult me instead.

guajiraguantanamera - it's written into the lease as a quiet enjoyment thing - Number 50 no more wants to see my sagging old undies any more than I do theirs, and if everyone hung out their washing on a sunny day, it would look awful! Also, not everyone has a balcony or front lawn that they could hang their washing, so it wouldn't be fair, even if those that could were allowed to.

I know that in my pre-tumble drier days, I really hated the rule, but it's in the lease - if you break the terms, then you run the chance of being evicted, or if you're an owner, you run the chance of losing your property. I think it's a fairly common clause in a lot of flats these days. If you buy your flat, you'll be able to eyeball the lease terms before buying, if you rent through an agency, it's always worth asking to see a copy of the lease terms.

I did feel sorry for her, up until a point.
iminshock he was rude but as we were pleasantly going about our morning, she rudely interrupted it so I'm inclined to not really give a shit tbh.. Coming up and cornering a woman less than a week after an EMCS (and yes she knew I had one) and shouting in her face is downright nasty. So I have stopped feeling sorry for her now.

or if you're an owner, you run the chance of losing your property.

How would that work Catlitter? I have often wondered how difficult home owners were dealt with - it is easier to evict tenants I know, but how would you force a home owner out?

Tigger, calm down.

miaowroar - it's to do with signing up to abiding by the leasehold. If you are a freeholder, it's a whole different kettle of fish, but if you are a leaseholder (as is anyone that "owns" a flat in my block - we pay ground rent to the freeholder), then you agree to abide by the terms of the leasehold. The terms of the leasehold are not just that you pay ground rent, but also a number of other terms (such as not leaving laundry out, not being an arse to other neighbours). So, in theory, if a leaseholder was breaking the terms of the lease (bear in mind, there are a lot of terms), then they could, via the medium of the courts, be evicted / the flat be given back to the freeholder. It's rather expensive to go down this route, so it happens very rarely. We have yet to get to the point with a leaseholder that we've had them lose their property - the small claims court normally deals quite efficiently with issues which arise. And believe me, they do!

She is quite right to be "snobby" about having neighbours who litter and swear.

Any chance your baby is keeping HER up at nights?!

Nope, when I went round to apologise that night I asked if she could hear my ds when he cried and she said she couldn't hear a thing,
I asked all my neighbours the same
thing, same as I used to ask them to tell me if they could hear me coming in from work at nights (I work in a restaurant until late most evenings).
In fairness though, not much I could do if she could hear him crying!

YANBU though hate is a bit strong.

However, YABU to smoke then deal with a newborn with horrid fag breath.

LeftMyRidingCrop my dp is the most laid back person I have ever met in my life, the fact that he lost his temper with her speaks volumes. It takes a lot for him to get angry but come chapping at our door at 9.30pm when we have a newborn baby who hasn't slept more than 2hrs at a time...
He did say come back in the morning and we will discuss it then (I.e. I'd apologise!!) but she was having none of it. Her loss, just two more people in the building who can't stand her ..

AtSea you are right, but I just quickly chose a title.

I do however hate that I smoke and
I always wait until the wee man is in bed to have my cheeky smoke outside. I genuinely don't have time in the day to have one but I always enjoy one when another day is over, I'm ashamed to admit I look forward to it all day.

Sorry OP but I've done the newborn thing twice and experienced extreme sleep deprivation for nearly a year with both dc (think waking every hour for four months), I have gone to a place called 'beyond tired', but I have NEVER spoken to anyone the way your dp spoke to your neighbour. Disgusting behaviour. It's a bit weak to say 'I was cross with him' - he's your dp, coupled with you "'aving aye faaag" on the balcony and then flicking your cigarette butt down you can surely see why she has got the idea that you are not "nice people"?!

Actually, I'm not cross with him. Looking through the majority of these posts it is obvious most people think my neighbour is a bit of a bully, so I'm proud of my dp for sticking up for me.
Had to laugh this morning as my dp carried the upstairs neighbour' shopping up for her this morning, NDN is her wee "pal" and was raging that she likes us because we are actually decent fucking people

Hmmm.

She was defo unreasonable to carry on at you the next day after accepting your apology. But, the fag butt thing would have pissed me off. That combined with your DH's horrible words to her would get alarm bells ringing for me as potential bad neighbours. Only potential, mind.

I've been very very sleep deprived (more than a few nights tbh) and managed to stand up for myself but remain civil in similar provoking circumstances. I certainly wouldn't feel proud of DP for speaking as he did.

I think some people are being a bit unfair towards you OP. You apologised and your neighbour was still rude to you both. Don't beat yourself up over it.

We had a really difficult newborn in difficult circumstances which made things very strained in the early days (it still is now) and if someone had behaved like that towards me, my DP would've probably reacted in a similar way. The stress that we were both under made us act in ways that we normally wouldn't have.

That's just it, Binky, that's what confuses me! I explained that I honestly wasn't as thoughtless an messy as I had appeared to be that night, that I had done something stupid because I wasn't really thinking properly. The midwife had been round that morning and told me that ds had lost "a lot of weight". Now looking back, I realise that is that is common in babies a few days old, but at the time I felt like somebody was saying your a bad mum and its your fault! I had a mastitis and I was convinced that's why he had lost weight. I know I wasn't thinking properly.
But yeah, this apology was accepted and she even hugged me and told me that she understood how being a new mum was scary and exhausted and she was actually pretty lovely to me, then she just completely turned on us the next day.. So baffling!

OP, she sounds like a very bored person with little to occupy her time, so she polices the behaviour of her neighbours. It's a hobby. Some people join clubs or take up arts and crafts, your NND finds reasons to be a dick. She probably has some kind of progress chart or spreadsheet she uses to record the results of her dickishness.

I used to have a neighbour like that, she was a first class dick. To give an example, when my DS was born she knew he had arrived, but not that he was prem and still in hospital. However, she collared exDH to complain about new born DS keeping her awake at night - and looked like a loon when another neighbour pointed out he was over a mile away. There were other things, but that was the worst. And to be honest, if she had said it to me - tired and post natal - I think I'd have responded with something that your DP look very polite.

As PP have said, your other neighbours will be aware of how awful she is. Ignore her as much as possible, and if she attempts to harangue you again have a word with your landlord. They won't want good tenants driven out by her dickish behaviour, so she might find the building management having a word with her about it.

Oh I see Catlitter - I understand about the lease. Do you think they would then sell the property on behalf of the owner - surely they couldn't just sell it though.

I think you are right, Saskia she is probably bored. I remember my gran had problems with a young female neighbour who moved above her, and I hated the thought of my lovely wee granny being intimidated or having a neighbour that would make a mess or upset her in any way. I would hate to be that nuisance neighbour and my apology to my neighbour was sincere. I would have probably made a huge effort to be nice to her after it all if she hadn't shouted at us the next day. I don't see the point in having grudges with people if the issue could be sorted. Sadly I think she will hold this grudge as long as we stay here.